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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys.
In this post I want to talk, and ask, about band misalignment that happens gradually as we shoot.
What I will describe happens almost every time.
I band up a frame, I shoot it well and true, and after, let's say 400 shots, I am not sure exactly, I start getting flyers.
I get frustrated for 2-3 hours, and when I finally take the bands off, I realise that the bands are off. The ties to the pouch a bit off because they slipped, and on the frame the same, either because of the pouch ties, it because of stretch maybe?
Anyway, after re-banding carefully, my usual accuracy returns.
This is happening for a long time, giving me great grief, untill I realise that it was the bands at fault.
From now on, when I get 4-5 shots go wrong unexplainably, I will be re-banding at once.
Do you have similar experiences?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I find that sometimes it is the rubber itself ! After a while they stretch unequally, and that can also cause a problem

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That was a thought that crossed my mind too. I am shoooting gzk 0.8 btw, I don't know if that's the issue. I have some precise 0.75 coming, so I will compare.
It's really frustrating though.
 
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I'm in the minority (as usual. ..) but I don't think a half inch of inequality makes any difference. I always shoot bands until they break and find that they shoot fine if one side is intact and the other side is torn down to just a thread of rubber. In fact, it seems like the last shot before bands break is usually a hit :)
 

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I've found that thicker elastic can stretch out over time. I haven't used your .8 GZK but I've noticed with the .75 precise I have it needs to be stretched out before tying a bandset. I cut my strips, stretch them out, and then remeasure and tie the bandset. I would be more inclined to believe that this is what's happening with your bandsets rather than any tie slippage, but the fact that you only notice it after a few hundred shots is puzzling.

I would implore you to try a few different things, one at a time so that you can see how each one makes a difference. I would first try pre-stretching the rubber a bunch, and I would also encourage you to try a different tying media. What are you currently using? I've permanently switched to the elastic tying ribbon sold by Dankung, GZK, and others. I've never had any problems and it makes for compact, neat ties that are as secure as anything else.

Best of luck!
 

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Hello guys.
In this post I want to talk, and ask, about band misalignment that happens gradually as we shoot.
What I will describe happens almost every time.
I band up a frame, I shoot it well and true, and after, let's say 400 shots, I am not sure exactly, I start getting flyers.
I get frustrated for 2-3 hours, and when I finally take the bands off, I realise that the bands are off. The ties to the pouch a bit off because they slipped, and on the frame the same, either because of the pouch ties, it because of stretch maybe?
Anyway, after re-banding carefully, my usual accuracy returns.
This is happening for a long time, giving me great grief, untill I realise that it was the bands at fault.
From now on, when I get 4-5 shots go wrong unexplainably, I will be re-banding at once.
Do you have similar experiences?
At the forks . Do a pre-wrap of the fork to increase friction . Now lay on your band and continue wrapping three times . Now fold up the tag end of band so it will be under wrap . Continue to wrap two more times and tuck . This will not move .

At the pouch . Make sure you pre-strech before tying or wrapping .
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the answers guys.
I will also try a constrictor knot instead of wrap and tuck on the pouch end, I will apply your advice, and get back to you when I have new info on the matter.
 

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I've noticed slipping with wrap and tuck, but my main shooter now uses clips and any slip there is a slap in the face. As with MJ's experience, I've found that even with bands holding together by a thread, I still shoot pretty much the same until it's really bad.

I've just switched back to old TBG and have found my accuracy is improved most of the time, but I'm back to getting some real freak flyers. These bands are pretty roughly cut and not identical, which is making me wonder if that's a factor... Despite the other observations.
 

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What MJ said, prestretch as 3danman said, and what Treefork said.

My bands are good beginning to end. Only occasionally I will have the band slip from under the tie. But Accuracy never diminishes and had some hanging on by the smallest amount. Also a reason for safety glasses
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, got home and managed to get 20-30 shots, enough to confirm my findings.
What I will describe happens a LOT.
I make a new bandset, shots go way high. I change the bands, upside down, as I shoot gangsta, shots go way low. I measure everything, and we are talking a millimeter difference.
This is not the first time it happens.
I changed bands, 3 shots and 2 hits. I can't shoot more unfortunately because I have to keep my 6 month old niece.
Anyway, I believe you all guys that a mm isn't so important, so I conclude that the gzk roll I got is a lemon. No other explanation.
This would explain my many frustrations over time.
Thankfully this is the last bandset of that roll. After it breaks, I will use 1mm gzk, and I wait for 0.72 gzk, 0.75 precise and 0.45 sumeike to arrive.
I may be wrong, but I am convinced that this rubber sucks. It has given me grief many times.
Do you think there's any logic in what I said, or am I just losing it?
 

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Random thoughts... Not saying you do any of these things but they are just possibilities...

Did you try the different methods of tying as suggested by others? Do you stretch out the tying strips to max or as near max as you can? Did you try using rubber for pouch ties? There are even types you can buy and colourful ones as well. Sometimes a natural slip happens to equalise the bands.

Do your slips always occur on one side only or randomly? How many rounds do you go round the band when trying to frame? It's puzzling that it should happen so often to you but some rubber is indeed slicker and tends to slip more.

Did you cant your frame backwards as you draw back? Coz that motion could pull the bands out of its ties.

Did you sand your band grooves too smoothly? Anyway, still strange because I am convinced after shooting the tiny turtle that band grooves may not be necessary...

If all else fails, just shoot looped tubes!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The thing is that I don't get slippage. I switched from wrap and tuck to constrictor knot on the pouch, but I still haven't shot much to test it.
Oh, today I've learned how to shoot without aiming at all. This style is much less prone to such grieves. I am just not sure if I'll go full on instinctive yet ????
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Guys it's a fact, I made my conclusions and they are final.
Gzk latex, or at least the batch I got, just sucks. Before yesterday I got a new set on. Yesterday, after a day of shooting it already, was a very productive day. I found a way to anchor using two points if anchor to increase consistency (I will explain this method in another post), and managed to hit very often, and be very consistent, even on my 1.7cm target.
All in all I was happy with my performance and practice, so I used my success to allow myself to shoot less than usual.
Here comes today. I start shooting and I notice I miss by a lot. I tweak my pouch hold and manage to get some results, although poor, but I had to fight tooth and nail just to shoot half decently.
This time I was mentally prepared though, and after about 40 shots I just took another bandset out. Not a new one, mind you. I measured carefully, put on a leather pouch I just made, and took some shots. Sure enough, my consistency returned. Without even trying, I am shooting at the best of my ability.
I don't know why this happens exactly. Maybe the bands stretch unevenly, but it does happen.
This is my last 0.8 gzk bandset, next to try is 1mm gzk, and we'll see if it suffers from the same illness.
Another thing I did was to finally decide that microfiber is not for me. I tried hard to make it work because it's very cheap, but it just doesn't cut it for me. It's so soft and supple that the ammo just digs in my finger. I made a pouch from some geox shoes, 1.4mm thick leather, and I much prefer it's rigidity and cushion it provides. So, rigid leather is for me. Good thing I ordered some Warrior samurai roo pouches. I hope they compare well to what I've made.
 

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Have you tried the Latigo pouches from Simpleshot? Latigo leather pouches are thick and strong yet very supple and conforms well around the ammo. There is nothing like the feeling of leather and catching a whiff of its scent under your nose as you take aim. It's a comfortable, secure and almost luxurious feeling. The warrior pouches are also excellent, very rigid, takes a while to wear them in but they seem to last a lifetime. There are many types of microfibre pouches and the thicker variety is simply awesome, light and strong. When you factor in the price, they are hard to beat for everyday shooting. YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Microfiber pouches probably have an infinite life span, at least I haven't wore one out yet. But the thing is that when you factor in the longevity of roo leather, which I suppose is extreme, if I judge from the normal leather I've used thus far, the cost is also negligible.
I've paid around 12€ I think for three roo pouches, so, if one lasts about two months of intensive shooting, we are talking 2€ monthly for pouches. And I believe they will last a lot longer than that ☺
I do like the thicker microfiber though, but they tend to get slippery on the callous of my index finger.
 
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