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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I take a brief break from the forum, and what do I see when I return? Yeah, the infamous clay ammo madness.... Why all this, undeserved, love for clay? It is so light, it isn't even funny. Not to mention that you cant kill a hapless animal if you fancy some killing during practice.
You cant even.... destroy things....
Seriously, its so light that one should use light bb bands...
 

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Clay ammo has its fans and it is not without reason. You can easily cut soda-cans with clayshot and take small game with it. It has its uses and function for safety and biodegradability. They can be just as fun provided you match your bandset. It may not be for the ammo junkie bent on destruction but some of us do actually enjoy a variety of set-ups (and do not always want to kill)... to each his own. We practice ammo appropriateness ...
 

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Welcome back! I always enjoyed your posts and am happy for your return.

I roll my own clay ammo, which is a labor of love. It is time-consuming and difficult to get round. But, I combine it with social time with Mrs. Raja in her studio. Our 7 year old godson enjoys making clay ammo, and this is how he earns his own ammo and bonus paintballs.

There is about 15% shrinkage, so I roll about .70 cal. ammo to get .60 cal. which is about the same weight as 3/8 steel shot. I have difficulty controlling anything smaller than .60 cal.

I agree w/ Urbanshooter. Clay ammo has its place. It is easy for kids to grip and environmentally friendly. It is a lot of fun for roving and is fun to shoot at a plank outdoors (the same way I shoot paintballs).

I shoot marbles for destructive force, 3/8 steel shot for precision, and clay balls (and paintballs) for fun.
 

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There may be a few fans of clay but certainly not a " Madness " . On the surface they may appear to be a bargain . The beauty of slingshots is the being able to reuse ammo almost indefinitely . Clay balls are a one time shot . Then there is the issue of accuracy and consistency . Clay can't even compete with glass marbles . I don't believe clay balls have been used in any world record shots or in winning any tournament world wide . Use what ever makes you happy and fulfills your shooting needs . :twocents:
 

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For me it's the simple fact that I either shoot in my basement or backyard. My basement has a permanent catch box for safety reasons. When shooting in my yard I like to shoot reactive targets as well as targets of opportunity. I don't want a permanent catch box left in my yard and don't want to have to take the time to set one up. Besides, I find shooting at a fixed object hanging in a box just plain old boring. With clay I have minimal concern for ricochets and damage. Plus there is no cleanup or environmental issues. Should I choose to do any hunting or just want to smash things, I have 600 marbles and a bunch of 3/8 steel close by!
 

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I always find the 'biodegradable' aspect of clay ammo quite amusing. Obviously steel is also 'biodegradable' - in fact grass actually needs the stuff... For me I get multiple shots from steel so its actually cheaper - but if you're out walking about plinking I get the appeal of clay.
Clay is actually reusable. I shoot at either a hanging sheet with paper or cardboard targets, or a cardboard box with t-shirts as a backstop. Out of the dozens of shots I took in the last couple of days, I think only two have broken. Been shooting the same handful of clay repeatedly. Obviously they will break or be lost when shooting in my yard, but at .005 cents a shot, I ain't crying!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank god Master Treefork has my back on this one ????
Seriously, its a matter of preference really, I get it. I just dont like the loss of accuracy with clay. When I want to shoot cheap ammo, on targets of opportunity, I buy some 16mm marbles. They very very cheap, with the only con being that they need a somewhat larger pouch than what I use.
Oh well, I guess if everyone liked the same things, there would only exist one frame :)
 

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Thank god Master Treefork has my back on this one
Seriously, its a matter of preference really, I get it. I just dont like the loss of accuracy with clay. When I want to shoot cheap ammo, on targets of opportunity, I buy some 16mm marbles. They very very cheap, with the only con being that they need a somewhat larger pouch than what I use.
Oh well, I guess if everyone liked the same things, there would only exist one frame :)
As Mrs. Raja says "Not another bag of marbles!" $1.00 for 50 at the Dollar Store. I once found 3 bags of 50 for 50 cents each in the clearance aisle at the grocery store. My A+ Slingshot Kit Fox Hybrid is designed for 1/2" steel shot, and has an oversize pouch and theraband black tubes. Marbles fly great out of it. Not the most accurate as it is designed to be shot instinctively - but, it will tear a paper target to shreds in short order!
 

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I favor the clay ammo for a few different reasons...

I really enjoy shooting outdoors while taking walks. My targets consist of trees, dandelions, rocks and the occasional soda bottle. Most of this is done at local parks, often near an elementary school near my house. There are neighbors with backyards, lots of windows and cars, not to mention children at times. I can shoot at a tree trunk, trash can or rock without any fear of a ricochet hurting someone or something. My pellets usually explode upon impact, or are so light they don't ricochet very far from my target. It's also an optics thing. If I get stopped by a police officer, my little frame with looped tubes and dirt pellets looks a lot less menacing than a wrist rocket and 1/2" steel. I'm more likely to be left in peace, and present a more playful and benign side of our sport (as compared to shooting a hunting rig).

Secondly, I have a tiny back yard and find lugging a catch box out there for each shooting session to be boring. I prefer to shoot in my front yard with the front of my brick house as a backstop. I can place cans, clay pots, or other small targets in front of the house and shoot without fear of damaging my property or hitting cars with ricochets. I can also shoot in my house without punching holes in the drywall.

Lastly, i the child in me really enjoys the small explosions the pellets make when they hit stuff. I'm not admitting to it, but if you stood very close to me when I shoot you may hear me make explosions under my breath with each shot :)

It's not for everyone, but it's a lot of fun if it is for you!
 

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Why cant you aim normally with the A+ Fox? I dont see anything preventing you. You could also band her up with flat bands, even in ttf!
I arrived here from traditional archery - so shooting instinctive is normal aiming for me! : )

You are correct - there is nothing preventing me from finding a reference point on the Kit Fox and using it to aim, or even banding it up with flat bands. In fact, I tried both and was disappointed.

Let me explain why. Perry of A+ also has a traditional archery background. He put a lot of time, thought, effort, and experimentation into the Kit Fox. It arrives with a very detailed set of instructions, which of course, I did not read. When it first arrived, I shot it like I would any other slingshot, by lining up with the target the point where the top band (I shoot sideways) meets the fork.

My shots were all over the place. So, I dug out the instructions and read it and also sent an email to Perry, who spent some time explaining the slingshot to me. The Kit Fox is unlike any of my other slingshots, that is - it is not an ergo designed for 3/8 or 1/4 steel shot. It is designed for heavy ammo - Perry recommends 1/2" steel shot. It is also designed for instinctive shooting. So, I found some 5/8" marbles and shot it like I shoot my longbow. Bingo! I went from all over the place to consistently hitting the paper (I shoot office paper targets so I can see where my shots went).

Now, my Kit Fox is not as precise as my Jack Koehler Alley Cat - with that slingshot, I can actually pick spots on an office paper target. But, when I concentrate with my Kit Fox, I can keep my shots on the paper at 10 -15 yards, and group about 75% of the shots. Given that I have 2 ergos for precision shooting (Koehler's Alley Cat and Bill Hays' HTS), I really do not want to turn my Kit Fox into another precision shooter. Instead, I shoot it the way it was designed and enjoy shredding paper targets with marbles. As you mentioned in other posts - sometimes you just want to shoot large caliber.

It is a fantastic shooter and I highly recommend it. I don't know if wrist braces are legal in Greece. Mine bolts on (literally - you adjust the slingshot with a 1/2" wrench) to the Wolf Claw, a metal and wood arm brace - not a wrist brace - the wolf claw goes half way up my arm, and I have long arms!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Blue Raja, this subject regarding what is really instinctive shooting is a painful one mate... If you remember them, we some good threads about it!
I shoot a full Olympic recurve rig, and when they ask me, "How do you aim?", I tell them the truth, "I don't know. I don't pay attention to aiming, I shoot my form". That doesn't mean that I don't aim though.
Hulla Baloo discovered the best term .....aiminstinctive shooting!
 

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Blue Raja, this subject regarding what is really instinctive shooting is a painful one mate... If you remember them, we some good threads about it!
I shoot a full Olympic recurve rig, and when they ask me, "How do you aim?", I tell them the truth, "I don't know. I don't pay attention to aiming, I shoot my form". That doesn't mean that I don't aim though.
Hulla Baloo discovered the best term .....aiminstinctive shooting!
Brother Skropi,

I fully understand that there is no such thing as instinctive shooting. If there was, an instinctive shooter would be able to hit the target in the dark. It is how Perry of A+ described how to shoot the Kit Fox. I use the term as it is generally accepted for what is actually a very complicated and subtle form of aiming. Properly described, "instinctive" is subconsciously aligning a reference point on the bow (including the arrow) or slingshot with a reference point at the target.

I suffered through way too many arguments on a trad archery forum and still cringe at all the cute descriptions such as "gap-stinctive." I think that you know what I mean when I refer to "instinctive" and it is really not worth the time or effort to parse words over it.

May I suggest that we both return to what makes this forum so enjoyable? Talking about slingshots!

Again, I enjoy your posts and am happy that you returned. Keep shooting!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Aaaaah, ok, so we are on the same page regarding instinctive shooting. Actually, the way you described instinctive shooting, is the way all aiming should be done. Its the most effective way of shooting, leaving the aiming focus to the brain, while we, the shooters, focus on more pressing matters.....our form :)
 
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