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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Almost back on topic ..

The Queen with sword got pissed 'cos some bloody pensioner was walking on her lawn, about to charge the old geezer ..

Nope, she knighted him.

100 year-old Captain Tom Moore decided to do his bit during the pandemic by walking with frame sponsored laps of his garden. Each lap was 25m (82ft). It went viral. He walked 100 laps and raised £32 million ($40 million) for the National Health Service.

Much more than this Captain Moore raised the spirits of the nation and inspired others to think of ways to play their part - including me.

Now he's Captain Sir Tom Moore.

..doffing my cap in his direction.
 

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While eating lunch I felt like someone was looking at me. I look over and my wife says “you proud of yourself‍♂“ I reply, I have posted my mouth gets me into trouble But to answer her question, “no Im not proud of myself” Here is where it turns on me “ She ask, did you learn anything” I reply probably not‍♂
 

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The thing about this chaotic world is the uncertainty and the lack of working together, and the news media. Don’t know what to believe anymore. I keep as isolated as I can in my small group of friends and family. I was born in the 1950’s, and most, not all people worked together. I know several people today that their attitude is “I’ve got mine, F#&% you”
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Yup... I agree you can't hide death rates but you can misreport cause of death. If someone has not been tested positive, they don't get reported as a Covid-19 death. Also, not everyone dies from it.
The breaking news tonight here is the complete opposite.

Person A tests positive for covid-19.

Person A recovers from covid-19.

Person A is killed by car accident / falling space debris / clowns

Person A is recorded as a covid-19 death.

You couldn't make this up if you tried! Jeez :slap:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53443724
 

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Probably way off topic but I've ben thinking about this all day

This probably isn't very PC but nothing is meant as an insult to anyone.

The common theme is these towns and cities have a high percentage of families from an Asian background who, compared to the national average, tend to live in larger extended family groups under one roof. Which would facilitate the spread of the virus.
I'll pretend you meant Indians. Or some other gawd forsaken Asian... Bengali, Sri Lankan, etc...

Precisely the reason why it is the elephant in the room. Because as soon as something is pointed at which relates to race - in this case how families live - someone is bound to get upset (not you), or worse shout racist!

But yeah, I take your point. Asian is a term for a large number of ethnic groups and was too non-specific for the point being made.

Some of the lockdown measures in Leicester are now being eased. The lockdown also shone a light on Leicester's dirty secret of sweat shops paying less than minimum wage to employees. Slave labour was also mentioned.
Due to the education system I went through in the late 70's / earl 80's I would have described anyone from the Indian sub continent as Indian rather than Asian. To my mind the Indian subcontinent would be made up of India, Bangladesh, Sri lank, Nepal and Pakistan.

Now Im well aware that there are two hundred million people on the north west of the Indian sub continent that want nothing to do with the name Indian (Probably 3 other countries on the list share the same opinion.

Anyway what I have spent the day contemplating is firstly how do these people self identify? And where do you draw the line?

North American / South American is obvious (possibly a bit blurred in the middle. Panama?)

Africa is pretty obvious (again how does Egypt identify)

The western border of Europe is obvious. Atlantic / Mediterranean coast but where do you draw the line to the East. Personally The Bosporus in Turkey with an at best ill defined line going north and i would include Moscow in the European zone but Ive met Russian soldiers from Moscow who were from military families and over the years had probably lived all over Russia who thought of Russia as a Pacific country.

Where does Asia start? Myanmar, Tibet? (although the Chinese would say that is China) and how far does it go? Australia, New Zealand? (although I would call that Austral Asia)

To the North / west of Pakistan you've got Afghanistan and Iran. Contries I would describe as Persian. Do Pakistanis identify as Persian? How would you describe Persia?
 

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Just calling it as I see it. Went to the big box store to pick up items not in our small town. The store has the aisles marked with arrows pointing which way to go. We are meandering down the aisle and here comes two different carts headed our way. A young man maybe ten says "excuse me, but you are going the wrong way" The genius pushing the cart says, it's ok I'm an adult I told the young man he was correct, and the genius was disrespectful.

Before we leave the store we stumbled on another inconsiderate Huge man riding one of the stores electric carts. I refer to this man as huge, so you Will to understand where this is going. His butt and legs stuck out so far on each side that when a cart going the wrong way tried to pass the electric cart, the electric cart literally knocked off several jars of mayonnaise, breaking all of them. The man in the cart stated,, "oh well someone will clean it up" If this cart would have been abiding by the rules, the electric chair might not have hit the mayo. Or here's a thought, if one or the other would have stopped and let someone through‍♂

Make all the rules you want, if people don't follow them, then it's a free for all. At least we would know anything goes.
 

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When I was a lot younger(I know Blah Blah Blah) things would not be run by a bunch of Mandy pansy’s. By that I mean you mess with the wrong guys and outside you would go.Been there done that Nowadays it’s, (I’ll call the police on you)
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Great observation, reporting and conclusions, Tag. I enjoyed reading it. Mayo-gate?

@spewing. What you write is an intelligent musing on national self-identity but maybe also over-thinking a little. Perhaps there are answers to your questions.

I'm British, then English, then European, I think. :what:
 

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the Indian subcontinent would be made up of India, Bangladesh, Sri lank, Nepal and Pakistan.
Correct.

I think there is also poor little Bhutan in there somewhere....

there are two hundred million people on the north west of the Indian sub continent that want nothing to do with the name Indian
Also correct.

The joke is, "India" is the name taken from the Indus River.. which flows through Pakistan. :rofl:

So actually, WE are the real "India". The official name for cowdung land is "Bharat". Yes, really. "Bharat" is the name of India in their constitution.

However, we do not like being called Indian. And we like it even less if someone (Americans graduated from the George Bush school of geography) calls us "Middle Eastern". :banghead:

how do these people self identify?
Same as a Scot (for example) will regard himself/herself as from the nation of Scotland. Sure they belong to the UK but they are not English. We are basically 5 completely different countries stuck together as "pakistan" with different languages, food, etc.

How do we self identify as far as the world is concerned? We are Pakistani, Asian (or South Asian). NOT Arabs (though many have Arab/Persian/Afgan genes.. we look different than the bloody people next door and are two inches taller).

I'm Semitic-Mongol-Greek. Maybe some Indian thrown in.

Real Indians are Indians... they are not as ethnically mixed as we are. The Subcontinent was always invaded from our direction... that's why.

Where does Asia start?
From Japan to Pakistan. It ends at our borders with Iran. Iran is the "Middle East" (yes, I know that's Asia too technically but...).

In the north it goes as high as China, Mongolia. Kazakhstan and all those other "stans" are Central Asia.

South East Asia stops before Australia. We would love to call Aussies "Asian" but they would rather self-identify as European of some sort.

Tibet? (although the Chinese would say that is China
There is no Tibet, correct. There will always be China.

India and USA can pretend "Tibet Tibet" all they want... can't change ground realities.

Do Pakistanis identify as Persian?
Some do. I have a Persian name... which makes people think I am a Shia-Muslim.

I am not.

Our whole national anthem is in Persian... Urdu couldn't rhyme cleanly enough.

My family language was Persian when we arrived in the Subcontinent 800-900 years ago. We only changed it to Urdu like 100 years ago.

How would you describe Persia?
Persia = Iran.

Great food. Idiot people. Run into the ground by the Mullahs.

Right now, they want to be our friends because they think we can save them with our nukes. Or some such thing.

If you are looking for the definition of the Persian Empire then more than half of Pakistan was "Persian" once. Not anymore thank goodness. I would like to keep some distance between them and us.
 

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Yeah... people like that are everywhere. Reminds me of the "Shopping Cart Theory". Basically, it is a litmus test of whether someone is a good member of society or a menace. Shopping carts should be returned or parked in a designated spot rather than abandoned. There is no punishment for failing to return it nor is there a reward (except for the coin operated ones). So individuals that do return them do so out of being genuinely considerate people. Recalcitrant people will not do it even when they are told to and oh, they'll have their reasons... civil rights, was in a rush, couldn't walk, someone else will pick it up etc... but the reasons don't excuse the behaviour...

It annoys the hell out of me when I come across inconsiderate individuals but I usually leave them alone unless they do something that directly inconveniences me, e.g. leave a cart directly in the path of my car... barring something like that, I have learned the hard way that its a waste of time engaging with selfish people that lack sense in the first place.
 

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the Indian subcontinent would be made up of India, Bangladesh, Sri lank, Nepal and Pakistan.
Correct.

I think there is also poor little Bhutan in there somewhere....
there are two hundred million people on the north west of the Indian sub continent that want nothing to do with the name Indian
Also correct.

The joke is, "India" is the name taken from the Indus River.. which flows through Pakistan. :rofl:

So actually, WE are the real "India". The official name for cowdung land is "Bharat". Yes, really. "Bharat" is the name of India in their constitution.

However, we do not like being called Indian. And we like it even less if someone (Americans graduated from the George Bush school of geography) calls us "Middle Eastern". :banghead:
how do these people self identify?
Same as a Scot (for example) will regard himself/herself as from the nation of Scotland. Sure they belong to the UK but they are not English. We are basically 5 completely different countries stuck together as "pakistan" with different languages, food, etc.

How do we self identify as far as the world is concerned? We are Pakistani, Asian (or South Asian). NOT Arabs (though many have Arab/Persian/Afgan genes.. we look different than the bloody people next door and are two inches taller).

I'm Semitic-Mongol-Greek. Maybe some Indian thrown in.

Real Indians are Indians... they are not as ethnically mixed as we are. The Subcontinent was always invaded from our direction... that's why.
Where does Asia start?
From Japan to Pakistan. It ends at our borders with Iran. Iran is the "Middle East" (yes, I know that's Asia too technically but...).

In the north it goes as high as China, Mongolia. Kazakhstan and all those other "stans" are Central Asia.

South East Asia stops before Australia. We would love to call Aussies "Asian" but they would rather self-identify as European of some sort.
Tibet? (although the Chinese would say that is China
There is no Tibet, correct. There will always be China.

India and USA can pretend "Tibet Tibet" all they want... can't change ground realities.

Do Pakistanis identify as Persian?
Some do. I have a Persian name... which makes people think I am a Shia-Muslim.

I am not.

Our whole national anthem is in Persian... Urdu couldn't rhyme cleanly enough.

My family language was Persian when we arrived in the Subcontinent 800-900 years ago. We only changed it to Urdu like 100 years ago.
How would you describe Persia?
Persia = Iran.

Great food. Idiot people. Run into the ground by the Mullahs.

Right now, they want to be our friends because they think we can save them with our nukes. Or some such thing.

If you are looking for the definition of the Persian Empire then more than half of Pakistan was "Persian" once. Not anymore thank goodness. I would like to keep some distance between them and us.
Correct... I'll just add that the blanket term for Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamnese is usually "oriental"...

Asian, Oriental, Middle-Eastern are still identity lables though... they are just a little more obscure and afford the user of the term a wide-margin of error to identify someone rather than be educated and exposed enough to be able to tell the difference? Well, as you say, there are those that often mistaken Indians for Middle-Eastern all the time! So the lables are really for the benefit of those who can't tell the difference while simultaneously steering them away from applying the derogatory terms that exist and I won't quote...
 

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So the lables are really for the benefit of those who can't tell the difference
The US military name for "random poor brown people we are bombing at the moment" is Haji. :rolleyes:

The joke is, they don't know the word doesn't mean what they think it means. (It means "Pilgrim")

No wonder America loses all it's wars. :rofl:

Had this ex-military idiot call me a Haji... I told him I not a pilgrim, dude.. nor am I Arab... he just couldn't get it. Mind locked shut in boot camp, I suppose.

Then curious, I researched the roots of this and found this:


Apparently, they grew up watching this cartoon and this character was called "Haji" who wore a Hindu turban and he... not sure what he did. He just did stuff. :banana: :banana: :banana:
 

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I’ve had friends pass away from drug overdose, and suicide from depression and drugs. The statement that I finally got my question answered was “They seemed so happy” The term “walk a mile in my shoes” says it all.
 

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There was this customer that goes in the
parts store and walks up to the counter. Not realizing everyone but the one counterman had snuck off when they seen the disrespectful customer enter the store. The customer ask the counterman if there was anyone there that knew anything. The counterman replied "Yes" but they left when they seen you enter the store.
 
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