[GnuUser]

How do you compensate for elevation over a large variety of different slingshots, band types, elongation, and distances? I can do it after a few ranging shots, but it always feels like I'm "guessing" at the proper elevation, even after I've dialed it in with a particular setup. Windage has exact indicators; elevation has approximate indicators.

Windage is not a problem because it is the same regardless of slingshot, bands/elongation, or distance. For windage, there are consistent, concrete indicators of accuracy (aim down the band, target in center of band, make sure bottom band is hidden by top band) across all slingshots, all band sets, and all distances.

Elevation, however, is another matter. There is no "fixed" point for elevation, and I have to just guess at how far above the forks I should put the target. When I hit something at that elevation, I have to try to remember how high it was, but the target "floats" above the forks. At shorter distances (e.g., 5m) I literally have to aim at something about a foot below the target, and not at the target, itself. If I'm going to aim, it bugs me to "guess" at the elevation or aim at something else.

Does everyone just "guess" at the height of the target above the forks and make that consistent? I would love to have an elevation sight (maybe a bent wire?) for the 10m mark on each slingshot, so I can nail things at that distance, and adjust up or down from that for different distances.

Background: I am new to shooting slingshots, but have quite a bit of experience shooting air guns (and some experience with other firearms). I am still experimenting with different slingshots, holds, band sets (making my own now), and distances. I have a Scout, an Axiom Ocularis, and am getting a Pocket Predatory Taurus TTF next week. About the only thing I hold consistent is my ammo, which is 10mm clay balls. I use them because I shoot a variety of things on my property and in forested areas and don't want steel balls everywhere. I'm pretty happy with my accuracy for now. At 10m, I can fairly confidently hit soda cans with the Scout with a particular band set.

 

[jazz]

Elevation, if by that we mean the angle that the the stretched rubber makes in relation to the horizontal line (the angle of the barrel in firearms) and therefore the point of impact above the target IF the ammo would travel in a straight line (and it wouldn't) depends on the curvature of the trajectory. This curvature/trajectory is extremely sensitive to change in ANY relevant shooting parameter:

- Draw power,

- Elongation;

- Weight of the rubber itself;

- Pouch weight;

- Ammo weight;

- Ammo diameter;

- Ammo shape and in that sense its Drag coefficient;

- Air density (pressure, temperature and humidity);

- Gravity;

- Target distance;

- Target height;

- Forks height, and possibly some others.

(I am presently completing the software that takes all these parameters into account and makes corresponding calculations.)

In practice, you will fire couple of rounds at the target and do necessary adjustments.

Still after much more more practice one will be able to have a good feeling both for heavier and lighter ammo, for a close or more distant target and so on.

Still after much more practice and with the help of some inborn abilities, if one is able to evoke them, the whole process becomes combination of the conscious and of the unconscious.

My opinion is that "aiming", while perfectly normal and applicable to, say a rifle, is simply either not possible or less possible with the slingshot since your eye is NEVER in the line that with the rifle would be: hind sight - front sight - the target. Just draw your slingshot and observe where your aiming eye is - it is couple of good centimeters above the bands, and/or away from the bands, most of the times not seeing the pouch at; just make a full butterfly draw and it becomes clear that standard "aiming" is nonexistent, but our brains are positively deceiving us by doing unconscious adjustments.

I know that this is a controversial theme many times discussed here and with as much opinion as there are members, so I insist that this is only my opinion and nothing else.

cheers,

jazz

 

[GnuUser]

Thanks very much for your reply.

I'm certainly not trying to be controversial, so I hope no one takes it that way. I'm simply curious about how others deal with the uncertainty that results from all of the factors you've mentioned. After reading your reply, I think this really answers the question:

… In practice, you will fire couple of rounds at the target and do necessary adjustments. …

The fact is that it's complicated, and you just have to adjust. It does work for me, but if I want things to be consistent, I need to eliminate as many variables as I can (i.e., use the same slingshot, the same bands, the same pouch, the same elongation, the same distance). If I change anything, well… I just have to adjust my aiming.

I do think I'm going to set up at least one slingshot with a front elevation sight, just to see if it makes a difference, but it sounds like most people don't do that.

 

[GnuUser]

… just make a full butterfly draw and it becomes clear that standard "aiming" is nonexistent, but our brains are positively deceiving us by doing unconscious adjustments.

Just following up on this, I've been trying a bunch of stuff, and it turns out that you're right, Jazz. It really is all about letting your brain do the work, and not worrying so much about how it happens.

I tried putting vertical sights on one of my slingshots, and it was worse than not having them. At some point, I decided to try a 45 degree angle cant, keeping my head upright instead of tilted over the bands, and it worked fine. In fact, it worked better than a 90 degree cant, and felt so much more natural that I'm going to switch to that. Now the target is 45 degrees up and to the left of my left fork. How did I adjust to that? I don't know. It just worked.

 

[Samurai Samoht]

One way to adjust for the elevation is to practice with different anchor points. This is primarily useful if you use the top of your fork as a sight or aiming reference rather than instinctive. Raise your anchor point and the shot will go lower. Lower your anchor point and the shot will go higher.

The same principle applies to different sized frames if using the fork tip as an aiming reference. For a moment imagine that the center of your fork gap has a straight line to your target and you are using the top of your fork as a sight. If you are dialed in with a 100mm wide frame and switch to an 80mm wide frame the center of your fork gap has consequently been raised higher by 10mm. This translates to a big adjustment down range as you would expect. You will need to raise your anchor point to compensate for the new height of the center of your fork gap.

There are a few slings out there that have fiber optic sights that adjust for elevation if you ever want to explore that option. GZK has the Hammer and Hammer Pro to name 2 that I have used.

 

[SJAaz]

One way to adjust for the elevation is to practice with different anchor points. This is primarily useful if you use the top of your fork as a sight or aiming reference rather than instinctive. Raise your anchor point and the shot will go lower. Lower your anchor point and the shot will go higher.

The same principle applies to different sized frames if using the fork tip as an aiming reference. For a moment imagine that the center of your fork gap has a straight line to your target and you are using the top of your fork as a sight. If you are dialed in with a 100mm wide frame and switch to an 80mm wide frame the center of your fork gap has consequently been raised higher by 10mm. This translates to a big adjustment down range as you would expect. You will need to raise your anchor point to compensate for the new height of the center of your fork gap.

There are a few slings out there that have fiber optic sights that adjust for elevation if you ever want to explore that option. GZK has the Hammer and Hammer Pro to name 2 that I have used.

This is the way that I have been learning. I think of it as a teeter totter, If I want the far end to go down, I have to raise my end. So all other factors being the same, If I'm shooting a natural and am anchored up under my cheekbone, still shooting high. I could shorten my forks to bring the group down! Well DUH! It never occurred to me. Thank you very much for the thread. I love this forum, if you wait long enough something is sure to sink in!!

 

[GnuUser]

One way to adjust for the elevation is to practice with different anchor points. This is primarily useful if you use the top of your fork as a sight or aiming reference rather than instinctive. Raise your anchor point and the shot will go lower. Lower your anchor point and the shot will go higher.

The same principle applies to different sized frames if using the fork tip as an aiming reference. For a moment imagine that the center of your fork gap has a straight line to your target and you are using the top of your fork as a sight. If you are dialed in with a 100mm wide frame and switch to an 80mm wide frame the center of your fork gap has consequently been raised higher by 10mm. This translates to a big adjustment down range as you would expect. You will need to raise your anchor point to compensate for the new height of the center of your fork gap.

There are a few slings out there that have fiber optic sights that adjust for elevation if you ever want to explore that option. GZK has the Hammer and Hammer Pro to name 2 that I have used.

Your explanation about differences in fork widths was part of what prompted my initial question. The narrower the fork, the more I have to lower the top edge of the fork (90 degree sideways hold) below the target to hit it. The more distance between the top of edge of the fork, the more uncomfortable I felt, as there was more room for error.

Did the fiber optic sights work for you? I tried taping a bent wire to the top edge of the fork such that the wire was (supposed to be) in the center of the target when aimed. It felt awkward and didn't work well, but it could be that my wire was just not in the right place.

 

[M Mars]

One way to adjust for the elevation is to practice with different anchor points. This is primarily useful if you use the top of your fork as a sight or aiming reference rather than instinctive. Raise your anchor point and the shot will go lower. Lower your anchor point and the shot will go higher.
The same principle applies to different sized frames if using the fork tip as an aiming reference. For a moment imagine that the center of your fork gap has a straight line to your target and you are using the top of your fork as a sight. If you are dialed in with a 100mm wide frame and switch to an 80mm wide frame the center of your fork gap has consequently been raised higher by 10mm. This translates to a big adjustment down range as you would expect. You will need to raise your anchor point to compensate for the new height of the center of your fork gap.
There are a few slings out there that have fiber optic sights that adjust for elevation if you ever want to explore that option. GZK has the Hammer and Hammer Pro to name 2 that I have used.

This is the way that I have been learning. I think of it as a teeter totter, If I want the far end to go down, I have to raise my end. So all other factors being the same, If I'm shooting a natural and am anchored up under my cheekbone, still shooting high. I could shorten my forks to bring the group down! Well DUH! It never occurred to me. Thank you very much for the thread. I love this forum, if you wait long enough something is sure to sink in!!

I agree, for me, it's all in the anchor point. I also find my cheek bone gets me close, then adjust up or down from there. I find the more I think, the worse I shoot. KISS keep it simple

 

[Samurai Samoht]

One way to adjust for the elevation is to practice with different anchor points. This is primarily useful if you use the top of your fork as a sight or aiming reference rather than instinctive. Raise your anchor point and the shot will go lower. Lower your anchor point and the shot will go higher.

The same principle applies to different sized frames if using the fork tip as an aiming reference. For a moment imagine that the center of your fork gap has a straight line to your target and you are using the top of your fork as a sight. If you are dialed in with a 100mm wide frame and switch to an 80mm wide frame the center of your fork gap has consequently been raised higher by 10mm. This translates to a big adjustment down range as you would expect. You will need to raise your anchor point to compensate for the new height of the center of your fork gap.

There are a few slings out there that have fiber optic sights that adjust for elevation if you ever want to explore that option. GZK has the Hammer and Hammer Pro to name 2 that I have used.

Your explanation about differences in fork widths was part of what prompted my initial question. The narrower the fork, the more I have to lower the top edge of the fork (90 degree sideways hold) below the target to hit it. The more distance between the top of edge of the fork, the more uncomfortable I felt, as there was more room for error.

Did the fiber optic sights work for you? I tried taping a bent wire to the top edge of the fork such that the wire was (supposed to be) in the center of the target when aimed. It felt awkward and didn't work well, but it could be that my wire was just not in the right place.

Exactly, if you don't want to change your anchor point you will be left to lower and raise the fork therefore obscuring your target or floating far beneath it.

I found that the fiber optic sights took me a few shooting sessions to get used to but now I am quite good with them. I target shoot from 10M mostly so I'm not usually adjusting them for elevation but they will certainly do that. I seem to focus better with a red sight rather than the green for some reason.

 

[GnuUser]

PICS DIDN'T ATTACH. ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN POST THEM?

I wanted to get more feedback on this, so I'm attaching a couple of photos of what I actually see when I'm aiming versus what I would like to see. With my preferred slingshot (Pocket Predator Taurus, which has pretty narrow forks), I have to place the top of the left fork way below the target to hit it. This means that I'm literally aiming about a foot below the target, which feels awkward and leaves way too much room for error. There's no higher point on the slingshot to use as a reference. With extreme contortions of head angle (leaning forehead way foreward) and anchor point (high and nearly behind my ear), I can bring the forks up closer to the target, but it's way too uncomfortable trying to shoot that way.

I'd be a lot more consistent if I could aim like a rifle, with the front sight at the bottom of the target. With another slingshot that has wider forks, the top of the fork is closer to the target, but I still have to aim about 6 inches below the target.

is this what everyone else sees when they aim? How do you maintain consistency when aiming so far below the target?

I'm still reasonably accurate, but I could be dead accurate every time if I had could put my reference point on the target.

 

[GnuUser]

I think I can link to the photos, so here goes:

Photo of aiming below target (will hit the target):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s46a6ex7kzp8526/IMG_0495%20copy.png?dl=0

Photo of aiming at target (will miss the target high by about a foot):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wxrj0j1sitxvc4s/IMG_0496%20copy.png?dl=0

 

[Samurai Samoht]

I think I can link to the photos, so here goes:

Photo of aiming below target (will hit the target):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s46a6ex7kzp8526/IMG_0495%20copy.png?dl=0

Photo of aiming at target (will miss the target high by about a foot):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wxrj0j1sitxvc4s/IMG_0496%20copy.png?dl=0

To post pics directly from your PC you need to open the "More Reply Options" when creating your post. At the bottom you will see "Attach Files", click "Choose Files". Once chosen click "Attach This File" then finish your post.

The narrow fork slingshots can be tricky for newer shooters. If you are wanting an aiming reference to be on your fork tip or the center of your bands (which is what I do as well) you are going to have to raise the sling and raise your anchor point. No two ways about it unless you want to go instinctive. I'll post a picture of how high I raise my anchor (floating anchor). I wear safety glasses whenever I shoot and when using a narrow sling I have to raise my anchor point so that the bands reach the bottom of the glasses.

 

[chuck sitas]

GNU, your not really out of the norm here. A slingshot doesn't normally have sights on them like an archers bow. All archers don't use sights either. The bare bow would be shot the same as our slingshot. You more or less have to use an " educated guess" for elevation. The old saying , practice makes perfect is the key here. By the way , this guessing part is used shooting a rifle if your not setup with all the modern stuff. As a slinger ,we shoot with an arc, so does a gun. You shoot enough to really learn this arc and , soon the brain learns to know this arc automatically by the picture it sees. Practice , practice , practice , it's the name of the game.

 

[GnuUser]

Samurai/Chuck,

Thank you both for the responses and additional information. I'm really enjoying the sport, in part because it requires such precision and consistency. If it was easy, I'd get bored with it.

I may try making a custom slingshot with forks wide enough that the top of the fork is right at the target center from 10m, although I really love the feel of the Pocket Predator Taurus TTF. It's small, very ergonomic, and super comfortable to shoot.

If I can get it to work, I'll attach my pics to this post. Wish me luck!

 

[chuck sitas]

GNU, For just a try, stick a piece of foam rubber to the front of your slingshot upper arm. Then take one of the plastic headed stick pins and use it stuck in the foam , as a sight pin. It would be delicate but you'd be surprised at how well it works. Many years ago, when I started out shooting I used this on my bow and also on my sling. They are easy to adjust but tender. Also once you get "zeroed" a small dab of glue to stop the movement works wonders.

 

[SJAaz]

Gnu...

I went back and reread all your posts. The only mention of your anchor point was an "uncomfortable" back of your ear. Am I to assume that you are shooting semi butterfly? If that is the case, then I can't help you. Being a rank beginner myself. But if you are an average Joe shooting from an anchor point somewhere on the front of your face, I have had your problem and a lot of others that are related. A lot of guys on this forum told me what to do about it, but being a septuagenarian I just didn't hear. Had to learn for myself.

 

[GnuUser]

… If you are wanting an aiming reference to be on your fork tip or the center of your bands (which is what I do as well) you are going to have to raise the sling and raise your anchor point. No two ways about it …

SamuraiSamoht, I just wanted to let you know that you pretty well solved my problem. After a lot of experimentation, I settled on using my thumbnail in the corner of my mouth as my anchor point, which kept the ammo right underneath my eye, but required me to aim low. By raising my anchor point directly upward to my cheekbone (about an inch upward), it allowed me to raise the fork up to the target as I wanted, and without changing my posture, slingshot hold, or draw. Someone else suggested changing my anchor point, but I didn't really get the "raise the anchor point, raise the slingshot" idea (and with other anchor points I tried it moved the ammo out from underneath my eye and I had to reposition my head). Now, I can adjust slingshots by just moving my anchor point up and down, but holding everything else consistent.

 

[Samurai Samoht]

… If you are wanting an aiming reference to be on your fork tip or the center of your bands (which is what I do as well) you are going to have to raise the sling and raise your anchor point. No two ways about it …

SamuraiSamoht, I just wanted to let you know that you pretty well solved my problem. After a lot of experimentation, I settled on using my thumbnail in the corner of my mouth as my anchor point, which kept the ammo right underneath my eye, but required me to aim low. By raising my anchor point directly upward to my cheekbone (about an inch upward), it allowed me to raise the fork up to the target as I wanted, and without changing my posture, slingshot hold, or draw. Someone else suggested changing my anchor point, but I didn't really get the "raise the anchor point, raise the slingshot" idea (and with other anchor points I tried it moved the ammo out from underneath my eye and I had to reposition my head). Now, I can adjust slingshots by just moving my anchor point up and down, but holding everything else consistent.

Awesome! Way to persevere and figure it out! :thumbsup:

 

[Grandpa Pete]

Elevation doesn't seem to have any effect on my shooting and I live a mile above sea level. LOL

No joking I really enjoyed reading all the postings on this subject, lots of good information. I must say I have yet to master sighting down the bands. I tend to agree with Jazz, let your computer (brain) work out the math. The amount of expertise on the forum is nothing short of amazing.

GP

 

[shooter_g]

This is a really good thread, it has caused the penny to drop in my mental coin-op brain! :screwy: Raising and lowering anchor point, yes! My issue was triggered by seeing the rounded fork tips of many ocularis style slingshots and wondering how on earth you could use a round surface as a stepped front sight. I understand using the intersection of the top band on the rounded fork tip as a "reference point" now, not as a front sight! I'm thinking old school medieval catapult with a swivel on the front and a turn screw on the rear for elevation like an old naval cannon. This makes crazy good sense. Now I have to get it to work!

I think this is my path to the goal of "instinctive" shooting.

Thanks to all contributing to this thread.

shooter_g