[Tex-Shooter]

OK, why do most die in the wool hunters, like my self use a heavier shot size? Here is a fact that quite a few shooters have overlooked.

 

[spewing]

Don't dispute this but my simple logic would be that if you used all the energy from the bands (which I would guess is impossible) the energy would be constant for any given mass.

Can anyone explain the physics behind this or is the clue that you do not use
All the available energy in the bands.

 

[Winnie]

It speaks to the need to match the bands to the ammo. It's weird how latex needs to be able to exert pressure throughout it's release. A fast snap is less effective than a constant pull. You see this exemplified when shooters set up with double bands or extra wide singles thinking more is better. You can hardly pull the things back and yet the ammo goes less fast. I've always figured that is why tapered bands work best. Different parts of the bands come into play throughout the sequence moving the ball faster and faster. Latex is weird.

 

[Tex-Shooter]

Don't dispute this but my simple logic would be that if you used all the energy from the bands (which I would guess is impossible) the energy would be constant for any given mass.

Can anyone explain the physics behind this or is the clue that you do not use
All the available energy in the bands.

Good thinking, no band set up's use all the energy, so the larger the projectile the more of the band energy is used! Of course there comes a point when the speed gets so slow that the flip becomes of little use, then just throw a brick! :what:

 

[Royleonard]

45 caliber acp is slow and fat but has enough energy to work very well !

 

[Winnie]

As we all know, things being equal, a small projectile at high speed has the same foot pounds of energy as a large slower one. Latex screws it all up.

 

[watcher by night]

I've heard that with spring piston airguns you tend to get higher energies with a lighter pellet, but with PCP (pre-charged pneumatic) airguns the tendency is to get higher energies with heavier pellets.

From what I've seen, with most slingshots that rule of heavier ammo, higher energy holds true. Maybe an exception is the Pocket Shot, which is optimized for light ammo such as quarter inch steel, but performs so-so with heavier ammo. The Pocket Shot tends to have a short draw length, although there's now an arrow shooting pouch that stretches longer.

A shooter named Torsten uses flat bands but radically tapered and with a long butterfly draw to optimize for light ammo.

Tex-Shooter, would you say there's a consistent pattern on how draw length factors in with pellet weight on the energy pattern?

 

[Tex-Shooter]

I've heard that with spring piston airguns you tend to get higher energies with a lighter pellet, but with PCP (pre-charged pneumatic) airguns the tendency is to get higher energies with heavier pellets.

From what I've seen, with most slingshots that rule of heavier ammo, higher energy holds true. Maybe an exception is the Pocket Shot, which is optimized for light ammo such as quarter inch steel, but performs so-so with heavier ammo. The Pocket Shot tends to have a short draw length, although there's now an arrow shooting pouch that stretches longer.

A shooter named Torsten uses flat bands but radically tapered and with a long butterfly draw to optimize for light ammo.

Tex-Shooter, would you say there's a consistent pattern on how draw length factors in with pellet weight on the energy pattern?

The reason that I posted, was to just make one point that I have heard misquoted time and again through the years and to keep it simple. I have done many other test, but this one is so profound and so misunderstood!

 

[Winnie]

The problem is with energy transfer. A cartidge, with a set amount of powder will project a heavy bullet slower but, because it is heavy it will transfer just as much energy as the same powder charge moving a lighter bullet faster. In hunting a fast moving bullet will often go through an animal and therefore be less effecient than a slower, larger bullet which will not go through the animal. The energy left over after the bullet has passed through the animal is lost. The two bullets have the same energy when they leave the barrel.

With slingshots a heavier ball will force the bands to move slower but also, because the bands will be working over a longer time, they will transfer more energy than a light ball being shot with the same bands. This is why you have to match the bands to the ammo. There are limits of course. If the heavy ball is too heavy then the transfer if energy will not be complete. What you don't want is the "snap" you get from too light of a ball. Strange as it may seem too light of a ball will not carry as much energy if the bands are too heavy.

I used to clock everything and found this out years ago. Too light of a load and therefore to little time to transfer energy will not give you the identical energies as a light and heavy bullet shot from a gun.

 

[Tex-Shooter]

OK, but what I say is true with any slingshot set up and identical draw with any projectile up to 3/4 steel. I learned this even before I had a Crony in 2003. In fact it was one of the things that was checked with a early radar unit in the 60's by a slingshot manufacture. I assume that you have a Crony Winnie! A gun with different power charges and bullet speeds is a whole different ball game.

 

[Bob E]

It's difficult to get a hold of, because the energy from the bands needs to accelerate the pouch, ties, and bands themselves as well as the ammo, it's a package deal.

Decreasing the weight of the package will reduce the amount of energy required to accelerate it. If the bands are the same that means higher speed, but if the weight was removed from the ammo that means less of the energy is being put into accelerating the ammo.

Increasing the weight of the package will increase the amount of energy required to accelerate it. If the bands are the same that means lower speed, but if the weight was added to the ammo that means more of the energy is being put into accelerating the ammo.

:screwy:

 

[Ibojoe]

I've always liked larger slower projectiles. Spent my entire archery career shooting 185 fps. I fell into the middle with slingshots (thanks to Winnie) I like 7/16 steel.
My only consideration on this subject is do I want penetration or a bludgeoned affect. Might need that speed for a high squirrel but definitely a larger smashing blow to a snakes head. Just my thoughts, to me Slingshots are just fun! I find it great to be amongst smart people!

 

[Winnie]

We might be saying the same thing.

The exception though is if the bands are overpowered and not matched to the ammo.

Latex can only recover so fast. If you shoot a BB with a 1 inch wide band set the bands - which would be a greatly overpowered set of bands - the bands can only move up to their maximum speed of recovery (modulus is elasticity and all that stuff). Now shoot a 1/4 inch ball - bands would still be overpowered - you will still get the maximum speed of recovery of the bands but you will have more foot pounds because the ball is larger and moving at the same speed.

Or, go further: shoot a ball the size of a grain of sand and then shoot a BB. The BB will have far more energy because the bands can only recover up to a maximum rate.

Within the range where the bands are not over or under powered your statement holds true.

The reason I jumped in was because you see newbies using giant bands that greatly overpower their ammo expecting to get huge velocities and instead get less power.

 

[Winnie]

Real power comes within the proper range of ammo to bands like you said above. You get significantly more energy transfer if the bands can pull over a longer period of time. The example of the band set I used above will deliver far more energy with a larger ball than a smaller ball - until you reach their limit. Newbies will often try increasing band strength but use the same ammo thinking they will get giant velocities.

 

[Tex-Shooter]

The bands that I use on mine all the time shoots 1/2 steel or 44 cal lead (my hunting ammo) about 180 fps. The last squirrel that I shot was a road wounded one and even though he could only use his front legs he got pretty high in a tree be fore I got my flip out. The only shot that I could get was a body shot, hit him right behind the front leg and the 44 went clear through him. He came down and still tried to crawl fr a few seconds. I only shot him to put him out of his misery. When I was young (70 years ago) I hunted with 5/8 marbles or about the same size rocks and usually had to finish off my prey. I used red inter tube rubber. I once shot a ground hog right between the eyes with a 3/8 steel ball bearing from about ten feet and it bounced back at me. he ran back to his hole, but I bet he had a headache for awhile! - Cheers Bob

 

[Rayshot]

Once I began seeing info about elastic's properties of retraction and supplied energy, couldn't help but be fascinated.

This is very interesting information which can be quite useful to the non-hunter, and very useful for the hunter.

Admittedly the subject's reality, is counter intuitive to most that pick up shooting with elastic.