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Here's the next installment of Impact Friday- a name I need to change since I am not liking it much. Maybe something like Friday Funday Flingday or something like that. Or, since I am often re-inventing the wheel by testing already established things maybe I will call it re-discovery Fridays. Anyhow, here is the next episode.
The forum recently had a discussion about whether thin bands were faster than thick. Conventional wisdom / engineering based reasoning (surface area to volume ratios) says thinner should be faster, as does past experience from many different people, so I decided to have a run at testing this. What better way to spend a Friday Flingday Funday?
I decided to use Simple Shot elastics for a couple of reasons. First, I have it in several different thicknesses. Second, the SS is a great elastic that is always near or at the top for me in terms of performance. And, most importantly, all the thicknesses are the same color so there won't be any affect from different dyes on band contraction. In my hands, I swear the Precise 3rd 0.5 is more pliable than the 0.75. I like them both but they have different optimal active lengths for me, and if the latex is the same in each, then the difference in dye is the only thing I can think of that would change the performance between these two thicknesses of Precise elastic.
The test I did was to compare ammo speeds from two different 0.8 thick bands. One of them being a single SS 0.8 and the other being a doubled up SS 0.4. My reasoning was that if the thin elastic is faster, then the double 0.4 should out perform the single 0.8. I also included a single SS 0.4 for comparison.
Warning- the linked video contains nothing graphic, mildly controversial, or even anything all that entertaining. In fact it is pretty boring. Just a bunch of time with the camera pointed at the chrony and catchbox with me calling out numbers as it rolls along. But it does document most of the test. I did crop out a lot of dead time between shots, as well as a few shots, to make it move along a bit quicker, and still ended up with a pretty boring video. But it does document most of the numbers presented here.
The results are pretty interesting. The doubled up 0.4 did out perform the single 0.8 by a small margin, about 4-5% or so, with 7/16" steel. However, the doubled 0.4 and single 0.8 were comparable with 3/8" and 5/16" steel. I think the take home message here is that for bands that are matched to the ammo, where the band is really working to pull the ammo, the thinner bands do have a small advantage. And when you go to lighter ammo that isn't as hard to pull that advantage disappears.
The draw weights are also interesting, with the 0.4 pulling a little less than half of the 0.8, and the doubled 0.4 also pulling lighter than the 0.8. The differences are not exact and probably reflect slight difference in mounting on the frame or pulling to the exact same draw length, but I think the trend of thinner pulling easier is real. So the thinner is a bit faster even while pulling a bit easier. Pretty cool!
After seeing these numbers, I went back and tested some more with 1/2" steel. The thinner is faster (when the bands aren't over matched to the ammo) held in this test, with the doubled 0.4 outperforming the 0.8 with the heavier 1/2" steel ammo. This info is included it in the table, but it was done a day later and thus is not in the video.
Also not included in this test, I will note that SS 0.6 (and Precise 3rd gen 0.5) start getting 5/16" and 3/8" steel up around the 270 and 235 fps respectively, like the SS 0.8, did in this test, although the thinner elastics do this at MUCH lighter draw weights than the 0.8. This adds another dimension to the thinner is faster topic, when using lighter ammo and bands are matched to the ammo you can get identical (if not better) speed from thinner bands that have much lighter draw weights. The take home message, well known before and re-proven here, is that using bands that are over matched to the ammo doesn't provide much if any speed boost- just a heavier draw for pretty much the same speed, and possibly less when the bands are really thick and the mismatch with the ammo is really bad. Plus, using the thinnest band that can handle the ammo will give the best speed, along with the bonus of a lighter draw weight.
The fine details. All the bands were SS black, 24-16 tapers, with carefully measured 6" active lengths for my 29" draw length- pretty close to optimal elongation for SS elastic for my draw length. All bands were tied to med sized SS kangaroo leather pouches and mounted on PP Sideshooter frames. So everything was matched as closely as possible, including choosing bands that didn't have different dyes between different thicknesses.
So based on this, I am happy to have re-invented the wheel (again) confirming that thinner truly is faster- as has been known for a while, but it was a fun little test!. The difference is modest and only shows up when the bands are matched with ammo or shooting ammo that is too heavy for the bands. But the thinner bands are clear winners in terms of both speed and especially in terms of speed for a given draw weight.
I should also add a shout out to all the TTF shooters out there for the lack of hand-slap from TTF mounted bands, another re-discovery made here. Even when the bands were badly overmatched to the ammo, like with the 0.8 thick bands shooting 5/16" steel, I did not get even a single hand-slap in all of the shots taken for this test. I didn't actually test if I would have gotten slapped with OTT's but fear I might have. And since it was just getting on the edge of chilly (for here in the desert anyways) am very happy that didn't happen.
The forum recently had a discussion about whether thin bands were faster than thick. Conventional wisdom / engineering based reasoning (surface area to volume ratios) says thinner should be faster, as does past experience from many different people, so I decided to have a run at testing this. What better way to spend a Friday Flingday Funday?
I decided to use Simple Shot elastics for a couple of reasons. First, I have it in several different thicknesses. Second, the SS is a great elastic that is always near or at the top for me in terms of performance. And, most importantly, all the thicknesses are the same color so there won't be any affect from different dyes on band contraction. In my hands, I swear the Precise 3rd 0.5 is more pliable than the 0.75. I like them both but they have different optimal active lengths for me, and if the latex is the same in each, then the difference in dye is the only thing I can think of that would change the performance between these two thicknesses of Precise elastic.
The test I did was to compare ammo speeds from two different 0.8 thick bands. One of them being a single SS 0.8 and the other being a doubled up SS 0.4. My reasoning was that if the thin elastic is faster, then the double 0.4 should out perform the single 0.8. I also included a single SS 0.4 for comparison.
Warning- the linked video contains nothing graphic, mildly controversial, or even anything all that entertaining. In fact it is pretty boring. Just a bunch of time with the camera pointed at the chrony and catchbox with me calling out numbers as it rolls along. But it does document most of the test. I did crop out a lot of dead time between shots, as well as a few shots, to make it move along a bit quicker, and still ended up with a pretty boring video. But it does document most of the numbers presented here.
The results are pretty interesting. The doubled up 0.4 did out perform the single 0.8 by a small margin, about 4-5% or so, with 7/16" steel. However, the doubled 0.4 and single 0.8 were comparable with 3/8" and 5/16" steel. I think the take home message here is that for bands that are matched to the ammo, where the band is really working to pull the ammo, the thinner bands do have a small advantage. And when you go to lighter ammo that isn't as hard to pull that advantage disappears.
The draw weights are also interesting, with the 0.4 pulling a little less than half of the 0.8, and the doubled 0.4 also pulling lighter than the 0.8. The differences are not exact and probably reflect slight difference in mounting on the frame or pulling to the exact same draw length, but I think the trend of thinner pulling easier is real. So the thinner is a bit faster even while pulling a bit easier. Pretty cool!
After seeing these numbers, I went back and tested some more with 1/2" steel. The thinner is faster (when the bands aren't over matched to the ammo) held in this test, with the doubled 0.4 outperforming the 0.8 with the heavier 1/2" steel ammo. This info is included it in the table, but it was done a day later and thus is not in the video.
Also not included in this test, I will note that SS 0.6 (and Precise 3rd gen 0.5) start getting 5/16" and 3/8" steel up around the 270 and 235 fps respectively, like the SS 0.8, did in this test, although the thinner elastics do this at MUCH lighter draw weights than the 0.8. This adds another dimension to the thinner is faster topic, when using lighter ammo and bands are matched to the ammo you can get identical (if not better) speed from thinner bands that have much lighter draw weights. The take home message, well known before and re-proven here, is that using bands that are over matched to the ammo doesn't provide much if any speed boost- just a heavier draw for pretty much the same speed, and possibly less when the bands are really thick and the mismatch with the ammo is really bad. Plus, using the thinnest band that can handle the ammo will give the best speed, along with the bonus of a lighter draw weight.
The fine details. All the bands were SS black, 24-16 tapers, with carefully measured 6" active lengths for my 29" draw length- pretty close to optimal elongation for SS elastic for my draw length. All bands were tied to med sized SS kangaroo leather pouches and mounted on PP Sideshooter frames. So everything was matched as closely as possible, including choosing bands that didn't have different dyes between different thicknesses.
So based on this, I am happy to have re-invented the wheel (again) confirming that thinner truly is faster- as has been known for a while, but it was a fun little test!. The difference is modest and only shows up when the bands are matched with ammo or shooting ammo that is too heavy for the bands. But the thinner bands are clear winners in terms of both speed and especially in terms of speed for a given draw weight.
I should also add a shout out to all the TTF shooters out there for the lack of hand-slap from TTF mounted bands, another re-discovery made here. Even when the bands were badly overmatched to the ammo, like with the 0.8 thick bands shooting 5/16" steel, I did not get even a single hand-slap in all of the shots taken for this test. I didn't actually test if I would have gotten slapped with OTT's but fear I might have. And since it was just getting on the edge of chilly (for here in the desert anyways) am very happy that didn't happen.
