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All the talk of compounds lately I was wondering if anyone that has one of these could give their opinion as to the power, accuracy, funtion and since it is out of production...is it worth saving? I emailed Robert Blake and am awaiting his response as to whether it will be around again, I will keep you posted. But in the meantime, i'd like to hear what you have to say.
 

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Actually, I think that the combow - like my "V", which is not very different in concept - makes no sense anymore.

For both the "V" and the combow, you need to use tubular rubber. Tubular rubber is very slow in comparison to thin wide flat bands. The advantage of the draw length increase is topped by the superior performance of the thin rubber.

Tubes have the advantage that they are more robust than thin flat bands. However, that advantage is lost when you use a pulley - both the combow and the "V" do that. The "V" uses an angle of 90 degrees, the combow is using 180 degrees. The larger the angle, the more friction rests on the pulley. That is no problem for the shot, but it actually shortens the band life by a great deal. The tubes won't last very long if you pull out hard.

So both the combow and my own "V" design suffer from the same drawbacks. Bad performance (in comparison with classic slingshots using thin flat bands) AND short band life.

I think the slingshot technology has moved on, at least it has for me. I use Chinese style looped tubes for practicing, they last forever, and super thin wide flat bands, folded several times, for serious power.

Jörg
 

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I am also leaning the way Jorg does about pulleys with tubes, although I still love the idea. I am attaching two pictures. I mocked this up in eMachineShop (cool free CAD tool) but I did not pursue it becasue I was worried about the tube movement across the pullets.

Image 1: 3D View of my compound idea, would be made of a single piece of T6. Pulleys would mount on/over the studs that are represented here.

Image 2: 2D side view. I painted in the rough route of the tubes in paint.net. Ugly, but gets the point across.
 

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I really only have my samples left, all of the Vs are long gone. People simply love it, maybe because it simply looks pretty cool. They are now collector's items, I guess, and since I don't follow that route anymore there won't be any further prod runs.

Aaron, I think your design has too much rubber. You'd need arms like a mutant gorilla to stretch those bands to 500%.

Keep in mind that if your draw length is 100 cm, then your bands should not be longer than 20 cm. In your design, you probably have 50 cm! So you would have to draw out 2 meters 50 (250 cm) to get some power.

Regards

Jörg
 

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Hey Aaron instead of working on pulley systems that are probably not going to be the answer maybe you should look harder at the reverse limbs on the crossbow in your post. As soon as I saw the picture it reminded me of some strange forward extensions. Maybe forward extensions like reverse bow limbs that flex to add power? That probably wont work either.

I'm like Joerg and use Chinese style attachment slings for fun and pull out the wide flatbands when I need to punch a hole in a car door.

Hey Joerg even if the V wasn't the answer to all our dreams it still should be put in the Smithsonian as one the finest pieces of slingshot design.
 

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There have been a bunch of Compound Slingshots, Slingshots using cams, Slingshots using levers,etc. over the years and the Combo was probably the best known. Well made,a good short arrow shooter (then later a full length shooter) and also with a quick tube change, a good-quite fast-round ammo shooter. Robert Blair's tubes deserve a mention here. He had small diameter tubes long before the Chinese and his tubes had a very small I.D which made them last forever.The Combo Slingshot was a well made platform that like Joerg said,provided a different shooting variation. We always love to see innovations and Mr.Blair came up with many. Oh BTW,Kent Sheppard reversed an old Combo Sling he had and turned it into the fastest Slingshot (single shot) I've seen.The tubes just naturally lend themselves to a fast reloading slingshot because they foul up a lot less then flats. Kent could get off around 18 shots a minute on target if I remember. Doesn't compete with Joerg's Gatling Slingshot but for conventional stuff-Wow! Flatband
 

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HI Flatband, was perusing Mels site when I came across Bells of hythe advertising for true catapulters. I was about to reply to them when I saw the notification in my inbox from this forum. Dont know if it was for me or forum in general. So I've answered anyway out of courtesy I hope.

I hope you truly enjoyed the read I provided in the link there, and hoped to impart a kind of tribute of sorts for the inventor Mr.Blair and his innovation/product, but fear it was a wasted effort. The inventor of the combow was truly a pioneer in compounding designs, and the latest site additions suggests we will never see another new one produced. Truly a tradjedy for the sport is how I feel. In the end though, consumers decide who is the winner and who has the better project or product.

I've tried writing Mr. Blair but no answers. Where to go from where he was or at... It appears that the design has outlived its time perhaps? I never did find either the cam or pulley to really help that much if at all, although the concept is intriguing. Theres always the tradeoffs. Mr.Blair though, was a pioneer and even though his designs never really caught on, he was the "bee's knees."

The nice thing about Mr. Blairs effort for me, is that it taught me the archery world does not want change. It has also taught me the slingshot world does not want change. In fact even the crossbow world does not want change. My compounding designs are really a mute point and of no interest except to me and those who love all weapons of unusual weapons design and features. Every inventor or designer has dreams of making money off the efforts and fruits of their labour, and I've no wish to end up like Mr. Blair and his wonderful Combow.

This entire thread I think is a mute point. Its exists only to show it perhaps (the combow) should have remained a private affair, a love affair of sorts between the inventor and his love of the slingshotting sport, and his love of inventing. There are prejudices and mindsets in every sport arena, and why should slingshotting be any different?

Everyone seems to think with Pathfinders web vids that the slingshot and arrows are something new. We know that to not be true, and such things were available 50 years ago. Mr. Blair however was a pioneer, daring to buck the trend, willing to try.
My machines are not without risk. An improperly made one thats breaks in operation could or will kill the operator wuite easily. I guess that I could do without that on my conscience I guess.

For Mr. Blair I have nothing but respect, and thanx. His slingshot machines proved up that slingshots could compete with the bow in performance and KE values. An arrow just doesnt care what launches it, and his design is forever part of slingshot history. Its sad, that even after I posted the article, he has never been given credit where credit is fully due. A sad way for his combow contributions to come to an end in such a capacity as this thread is about anyhow.

Seems to me the archery folks who did the article had acquired a full respect and acknowledgement of the machines capabilities of the combow as an archery equal. Funny perhaps the respect came from the staff of an archery and bowhunting magazines and not from either the archery or slingshot consumer world.

Thats something that I doubt will ever be replicated, either in Mr. Blairs time again, or mine. My hat is off to him and his pioneering efforts. Im very happy for him he got the chance to make it happen, and he got as far as he did. An archery product that did the same job as something that cost many multiples of what he charged, but offered the same performance for a fraction of the price.

For myself, Im oldschool. I still like the latex tubes dont care if theraband tubes are faster, and like the fact that even tho flatbands my be everyones current choice, Im still squeezing the tubes for every ounce of energy they can offer. When thats done to my satisfaction, I guess the flatbands are next on my list and time to join the 21st century as many (almost everyone) have done before me.

One combow opinions, the combow rocks and is hard to beat. For me it represents the best of design in an archery slingshot not of Y fork design. No fork at all actually. True original thinking, not a mod, not a copy of anything. That much I gotta love. My only regret is that they are not sold anymore, but have no doubt sometime someone will offer them again.

The bottom line is we all have our own opinions on the combow as slingshotters, and the verdict is already passed. The combow history link at least shows the design to have elicited a strong and positive response from a dedicated archery magazine. seems to me any recent arrow flinger work is an attempt to duplicate what Mr. Blair has already accomplished some time ago...

There have been a bunch of Compound Slingshots, Slingshots using cams, Slingshots using levers,etc. over the years and the Combo was probably the best known. Well made,a good short arrow shooter (then later a full length shooter) and also with a quick tube change, a good-quite fast-round ammo shooter. Robert Blair's tubes deserve a mention here. He had small diameter tubes long before the Chinese and his tubes had a very small I.D which made them last forever.The Combo Slingshot was a well made platform that like Joerg said,provided a different shooting variation. We always love to see innovations and Mr.Blair came up with many. Oh BTW,Kent Sheppard reversed an old Combo Sling he had and turned it into the fastest Slingshot (single shot) I've seen.The tubes just naturally lend themselves to a fast reloading slingshot because they foul up a lot less then flats. Kent could get off around 18 shots a minute on target if I remember. Doesn't compete with Joerg's Gatling Slingshot but for conventional stuff-Wow! Flatband
 

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I'll have to try to get in touch with Mr. Blair. I had the great pleasure of meeting this man and his son. He just is a natural born tinkerer. Always loved to experiment. He has a wonderful personality too! Keep up your work on compounding Mr. Warhammer. You never know if someone missed something in the quest for a faster Slingshot or Bow. As far as change, it is always tough in the beginning but if the idea is sound,give it time! Very nice post too,right from the heart! Flatband
 

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as I'm quit new to slingshots but i have used compound bows

I'm a bit confused about the use of the term Compound. as i see it al the designs i see here are methods of extending the band and guiding it over a pulley.

not to say they aren't good slingshots and not to tell anyone i know it all (as of course is the case )
but as i see the great pull but once cocked lightly held of a compound bow /sling is the main advantage.
this way you can shoot a stronger slingshot then normal.

as Hawaiian slings go this is a compound and a normal Hawaiian sling:

if anyone would help me understand the difference or set me right please do.
 

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I'm quite new to slingshots, but have used compound bows.

I'm a bit confused about the use of the term "Compound". As I see it, all the designs I see here, are methods of extending the band and guiding it over a pulley.

Not to say they aren't good slingshots and not to tell anyone I know it all,(as this is the case).
)
But as I see it, the great pull of a compound bow is reduced, once cocked and held is the main advantage.
This way, you can shoot a stronger slingshot then normal.

As Hawaiian slings go, this is a compound and a normal Hawaiian sling:

If anyone would help me understand the difference, or set me right, please do.
I am not even sure of what you are trying to say, apart from disputing the use of the term "compound," pertaining to wheel assisted slingshots.
 

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i dont know about the combow as i havent used it.
i would however, like to have one of Joergs compound versions like the newer W with roller bearings.
i have a Marksman 3070 and while it may make tubes a bit more powerful i dont shoot with it often for two reasons: 1. its rare and if i break it i cant replace it, 2. its large so i cant sneak it anywhere.
for compounds in general i would have to have 3 things: 1. flatbands, 2. compact size (like Joergs V), 3. easy to use (i.e. no issues re-aligining flatbands [see Joergs H for nice flat band detents] etc.)
 

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[quote name='mr.joel' date='06 January 2010 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1262789744' post='1187']

well i know my spelling is bad. but i don't think my spelling would reflect on the merit.
my question is and was if there is a difference in the meaning of "compound" for bows or slingshots?

in other words is the definition of "compound" for a slingshots different than the definition of a "compound bow", other then the fact that its a bow or slingshot?

and what is the advantage over a non-compound slingshot, if it's different from the advantage of a compound bow?

p.s. its NOMENCLATURE as in TERMINOLOGY.
 

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I think it's clear what I was refering to, even if I misspelled the one word(nomenclature).The advantage lies in the longer rubber invloved. The disdvantage in most of these systems is there is a corner the band/tube must go around inhibiting the rubber from doing what it is intended to do-increase velocity. Also, these units are inherently bulkier due to their necessary size.
 

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Would the system as used in the compound hawaiian sling be a goed alternative?
Or wont that work for a land based slingshot?
 

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Would the system as used in the compound hawaiian sling be a goed alternative?
Or wont that work for a land based slingshot?
Do you have a better pic of one? It is hard to tell how the mechanism works in that pic.
[/quote]
hi for me this design are out of my bill
I like pocket slingshots no catapult war machines ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I think he wants to shoot a ball through a barrel, like the bullet shooting crossbows that had rifled barrels, except manualy?Or perhaps using rubber-powered rod to shove the ball forward? Interesting ideas.
 

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A Hawaiian sling is an underwater hunting slingshot. The harpoon (spear) is shot through a length of pipe, which is really your slingshot frame. Simple and effective.

Underwater spears are for very short distances only as the water slows down the spear very quickly. On land, it doesn't make sense as for the longer distances, fins or feathers are needed to stabilize the flight of the arrow. So you would either have to use a quite large tube, which makes the shot inaccurate, or add a whisker biscuit.

On land, you shoot from a standing position, a slingshot with a grip is more effective (easier to hold and to aim) than a tube.

All in all, a Hawaiian sling is a scuba weapon. On land, the concept doesn't compete well against a slingshot.

I also respect the com bow as an invention. I just think that modern thin flat rubber is so much more efficient than tubular bands that the com bow is outdated. Flat bands rule!

Jörg
 

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ok i know that i wont win the drawing competition with this but here goes:

these are the 2 positions first position is the "rest" position. the red string(A, non-elastic) is guided rond the disk on one side of the disk is a guiding rail with the rubber attached to it.
when you pull A the disk turns and the rubber stretches over the guide ( C ), when the disk is a proximately 75% turned the rubber bents around the end of the guiding rail ( C ) this way the strain is mostly on the disk. thus it is much easier to hold the "cocked" position.

this is the same principle thats seen in compound bows.

i hope this makes it better to understand. just to be very clear i dont want to make the sea archer in to a slingshot i would like to hear what you think about the mechanism that is used. and could it be used in a slingshot.

byknight.
btw the sea archer design is used to spear fish. there for it has a barel that guides the spear. i think the technique could work with lead balls or marbles just the same. it might just make a good compound arrow shooting slingshot. or not.
 

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