[High Desert Flipper]

I am still on the steep part of the learning curve. And as with most other things I do I am probably going about things backwards.

Thinking I may sling hunt ssomeday wanted to make sure power was there. After some experimenting I am confident it is. So now accuracy. Better late than never?

A couple weeks of shooting every day and accuracy is coming along. As is a good case of cheek burn to go along with it.

After much thought, and a bit of video, I am convinced my all the way to the ear anchor is a factor. I decided I could give up an inch of draw length and get around my big head with a cheek or mouth corner anchor.

Cheek rub is much better now and I am figuring out new anchor points.

While experimenting and researching this I came across some past topics and videos on pouch twisting. I tried out the twisting and think I like it. Will give it a try for a week and see if it sticks.

Seems easier for me to get high elbow, ammo holding thumd straight and pointing at target, and rest oof drawing hand relaxed, etc.

While looking at past posts there seemed to be a diversity of opinion on twisting before.

I am curious to pick experienced minds here and listen to current thinking on pouch twisting. I have tried 90 and 180 degrees and the 90 seems to feel good for me here at the start.

Any thoughts, musings, suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[Pebble Shooter]

Pouch twisting sounds like a perfect recipe for fork or finger hits (ouch!), and does not induce any relevant twist to rounded slingshot ammo like the the "hop up" effect of an airsoft gun, never mind the rifling of a gun barrel. If anything, it destabilizes the ammo from its centered position inside the pouch. A standard linear release with the pouch aligned perpendicularly with the slingshot forks really makes sense, and is safest.

In terms of anchor points, I have settled for placing my right thumb knuckle on the maxillary cheekbone, and have been shooting very tight groups (one inch diameter) on paper placed on corrugated cardboard (at the 10 yards (standard competition distance) on my good days. It all boils down to a state of mind and high concentration. Like in archery, a fixed anchor point beats floating anchor points any day: in my opinion, it's much better to have a little less power but far more accuracy instead.

Better to leave the twisting to the musicians:

 

[Island made]

I turn the pouch 90 degrees..pretty much always have. I went a few months where I tried not to and my accuracy went to pot. I can’t tell you why it helps..I think it’s just a more natural hold, and In turn you get a cleaner release.

 

[Royleonard]

I have always twisted 90 degrees seems more right to me .Tried the other way and had more fliers and other stuff that I didn't want!

 

[stevekt]

I also twist 90 degrees. I hold the slingshot sideways so my thumbnail on my pouch hand ends up facing me after the twist. I feel this lines everything up for a cleaner anchor and release.

 

[High Desert Flipper]

Thanks all for the replies so far! Lots of interesting things to ponder.

When mulling it over in my head I think standard slingshot ammo, steel balls especially, are too smooth to get much if any "rifling" effect even if they manage to pick up a modest spin with a twisted release. But this is just in my head, not sure if anyone has actually tested it. Might be fun to look at with a high speed camera someday (not in my near future, lucky and thankful to have a chrony at this point).

I also can't find any good rational to say if it helps or hurts with fork hits, but I did find this interesting video that suggests fewer fork hits with a twist. Granted just one video demo with a narrow forked frame and all. And no explanation of the physics or mechanism. Have been turning this one over in my head trying to decide if the twist is safer, more dangerous, or neutral. Same for shooting mechanics. And maybe there isn't an answer- at least not one beyond being solid and consistent with whichever way is used.

But loving the discussion and thankful for the opinions shared!

 

[KawKan]

I twist 90 degrees, and find it improves my release.

The only time I don't twist is when I hold the ammo instead of the pouch. And then, my hand alignment is the same as when I hold the pouch and twist. That is, my knuckles are horizontal, my palm down, and my thumb is toward my face.

 

[SLINGDUDE]

I do not twist the pouch. Seems to work ok for me, but I am not a tournament shooter or a hunter. I think what's most important is finding what's comfortable and works best for you and then sticking with it and practice, practice, practice.

 

[SJAaz]

I am still on the steep part of the learning curve. And as with most other things I do I am probably going about things backwards.

Thinking I may sling hunt ssomeday wanted to make sure power was there. After some experimenting I am confident it is. So now accuracy. Better late than never?

A couple weeks of shooting every day and accuracy is coming along. As is a good case of cheek burn to go along with it.

After much thought, and a bit of video, I am convinced my all the way to the ear anchor is a factor. I decided I could give up an inch of draw length and get around my big head with a cheek or mouth corner anchor.

Cheek rub is much better now and I am figuring out new anchor points.

While experimenting and researching this I came across some past topics and videos on pouch twisting. I tried out the twisting and think I like it. Will give it a try for a week and see if it sticks.

Seems easier for me to get high elbow, ammo holding thumd straight and pointing at target, and rest oof drawing hand relaxed, etc.

While looking at past posts there seemed to be a diversity of opinion on twisting before.

I am curious to pick experienced minds here and listen to current thinking on pouch twisting. I have tried 90 and 180 degrees and the 90 seems to feel good for me here at the start.

Any thoughts, musings, suggestions greatly appreciated.

kokopelli...I twist 90 so my thumb is at the corner of my mouth.

 

[hoggy]

90* twist on ott for me.

 

[Valery]

Rotating 90 degrees gives good results!

 

[Northerner]

Way back when I shot wrist-rocket style frames, I held a slightly canted frame and didn't twist the pouch. When I started shooting gangsta style I couldn't get a comfortable wrist position without twisting the pouch 90*. My first bunch of shots were at very close distance because I thought they would go wild because of the twist. Well, the twist never caused a problem and my accuracy improved as I learned how to aim with the sideways forks. It's been about 10 years with pouch twisting and I have never hit a fork with many tens of thousands of shots. Actually, the one fork hit I had was when trying the learn aerial shooting. I moved the frame into the ball flight when tracking the moving target so I don't count that one.

I have shot 50 and 75 yards with a twisted pouch and the ammo flight is very visible on a sunny summer day. The flights look good. You can generate a curveball or dropball if your follow-through or wrist flip is bad but a solid shot with twisted pouch looks fine on the long shots. When my shoulder is rested I can do well on a pop can at 20 yards. Once it cuts in half I can sometimes do well on the hanging half of the can. I've never had a problem with twisting the pouch. With that said, I noticed that lots of the Chinese tournament shooters don't twist.

This is a good discussion topic and I often wonder whether a non-twist pouch is more accurate. If it causes wrist tension problems then it likely won't help your accuracy. Accidental pouch tweaking can ruin accuracy and cause fork hits but that's different than 90* twisting.

 

[Palmettoflyer]

My $.02 worth

Not sure if I can explain this clearly or not, but I'll try. The goal is to shoot as precise and accurately as possible. Along the journey to perfection, the idea of twisting the pouch comes along. Probably most of us have all contemplated if there is an advantage or not. So we try it and some find good results, some not. But as you mentioned, the ammo itself does not lend itself to improved aerodynamics related to spinning. So, maybe something else is going on?

The first four posts here, Pebble Shooter, Island Made, Royleonard, Stevekt, and include myself (even though I didn't post till now). All say that they twist 90 degrees. But what does this mean? The other comment I bet you have heard is that accuracy and consistency comes with a "clean release". So if you will reread their comments, you will get the idea of what promotes a clean release.

The common denominator in their remarks is the thumb knuckle or thumbnail is place against either their ear or cheek. Take a good look at your pouch pinch grip. If like most, your thumb is straight and inline with the shot direction. Your forefinger is perpendicular to the thumb. So a dirty release is when you let the pouch ride over the hill of your forefinger. A clean release is when the pouch slides loose with no effect from the fingers.

Now look at your hand again. You have two possible ways to let go of the pouch. Move your thumb, or move your finger. Hand mechanics will dictate what moves first, even if you try to move them at the same time. With the thumb on top (i.e. no twist), you will raise your thumb to release the pouch. The result is the pouch rides up and over the slight curve of the forefinger. Now twist the pouch and place your hand so that the thumb is toward your face. With your thumb against your cheek or ear, you will actually move your wrist to lift the forefinger from your thumb. Result is the pouch slides off your flat thumb pad and you will see quick improvements in your precision to consistently hit the same spot. Accuracy comes with learning how to aim better.

 

[Sean Khan]

Pouch Twist?

"Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger… anger leads to hate… hate leads to suffering."

In other words.... "Nope".

 

[High Desert Flipper]

A reply in Russian instructing me to download FIFA 15. As a reply to a query on pouch twist no less. Yeah, seems about right for 2020.

 

[stevekt]

I don't twist the pouch. I twist the frame. ????

 

[SLINGDUDE]

My $.02 worth

Not sure if I can explain this clearly or not, but I'll try. The goal is to shoot as precise and accurately as possible. Along the journey to perfection, the idea of twisting the pouch comes along. Probably most of us have all contemplated if there is an advantage or not. So we try it and some find good results, some not. But as you mentioned, the ammo itself does not lend itself to improved aerodynamics related to spinning. So, maybe something else is going on?

The first four posts here, Pebble Shooter, Island Made, Royleonard, Stevekt, and include myself (even though I didn't post till now). All say that they twist 90 degrees. But what does this mean? The other comment I bet you have heard is that accuracy and consistency comes with a "clean release". So if you will reread their comments, you will get the idea of what promotes a clean release.

The common denominator in their remarks is the thumb knuckle or thumbnail is place against either their ear or cheek. Take a good look at your pouch pinch grip. If like most, your thumb is straight and inline with the shot direction. Your forefinger is perpendicular to the thumb. So a dirty release is when you let the pouch ride over the hill of your forefinger. A clean release is when the pouch slides loose with no effect from the fingers.

Now look at your hand again. You have two possible ways to let go of the pouch. Move your thumb, or move your finger. Hand mechanics will dictate what moves first, even if you try to move them at the same time. With the thumb on top (i.e. no twist), you will raise your thumb to release the pouch. The result is the pouch rides up and over the slight curve of the forefinger. Now twist the pouch and place your hand so that the thumb is toward your face. With your thumb against your cheek or ear, you will actually move your wrist to lift the forefinger from your thumb. Result is the pouch slides off your flat thumb pad and you will see quick improvements in your precision to consistently hit the same spot. Accuracy comes with learning how to aim better.

This is a very good explanation for those shooting with a "standard" pouch grip - thumb and finger perpendicular.

Here's a link to a post I made earlier this year where I tried to explain how I release and how I hold the pouch (with no twist). I will also take this opportunity to reiterate that I am not a hunter or tournament shooter.

https://slingshotforum.com/topic/123898-finger-hold/?p=1408086

 

[Beanflip]

I’ve always twisted but it wasn’t intentional. Comfortable and repeatable was my goal. Lots of good insight in the reply’s.

 

[skarrd]

i'm a 90 degree shooter,i get a better poch release and a more consistant *feel* to my anchor point [ear lobe] i shoot sideways also,easier on the carpals,the one exception i have is with my PP scorpion,i can shoot that one no twist and still hit my target,not as comforatable,but,it will work