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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...
 

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That's like asking why one person hits a baseball better with one bat and not another. A lot is personal preference. You may shoot one slingshot really well and another person doesn't. I shoot SPS's and looped tubes. It works well for me. You may not like them at all. Sometimes it's not that something is better it just works for you.

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If only it were that simple. Shooting in general, and slingshots in particular really does boil down to personal preference. The WHY for me is probably not the WHY for you. Figure out what you like and what works for you and stick with it. Improvements will come with time and good practice. There is no magic secret or sacred information held by the experts. Just remember to have fun and enjoy the journey.
 

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90 degree twist.

If shooting sideways/gangster style and having an anchor near the cheek or ear and the forearm to elbow is in line with the bands, turning the palm to the ground turns the bands 90 degrees.

Why?

-It is a much more natural hand and arm position when shooting sideways.

-Also, relaxes the muscles in the arm and helps in not bend the pouch. Bending the pouch creates fork hits.
 

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Well, in some way I think you are right to ask this question, and to make it easier for you, most of us did the same once upon the time.

To answer this question, or a statement, I think that all of us should have one fact on our minds and that fact is that slingshot sport and the accompanying market are still not so important and developed so as that governments and companies invest literally billions of dollar in research, like Space.

With that said, all we have by now is experience and some, I would say, limited experiments.

Let's take as an example width of the forks. Bill Hays took some effort and he showed that wider forks are more efficient than narrow forks. Why? Well, most probably because wider forks for the same length from the point between the forks and the center of the ammo is longer than with the narrow forks, This immediately means that the stretch of the same rubber length is longer, which immediately means that the stretch RATIO is longer and the in the same time ELONGATION is longer.

The first part - higher stretch of the same piece of active rubber, say 5.5 instead of 5 - means more power; but it also means more elongation. BOTH of these parameters affect the velocity of the ammo. Now, there are more questions to be asked here than that, but Bill made a solemn effort, he got some practical results and this is probably enough at this level; for more than that we probably need an institute - which we do not have.

There are other topics, such as what happens when you twist the pouch and, most probably, in this way you give some spin to the ammo - some answers do exist, most probably as the analogy with firearms or so, but truly, a twist applied to a slingshot shot is NOT thoroughly explored and I imagine that for that a fast frame camera is needed, some special marks on the ammo, some true ballistics experts and so on, which we do not have - but Discovery channel does..

So, at least at this moment we are doomed to experience, some limited experiments and analogies and personal preferences even if we had science behind us. Take this as an example: both Bill Hays and the science (if we had one) will tell you that shooting TTF and NO flip makes better results in the sense of precision, target shooting. But I grew up with bareback slingshots made out of old inner bicycle tires, which were so lazy that the flip was indispensable. Today, after 60 years of active shooting I find flipping a slingshot a cool thing to do to a such degree that if flips were forbidden I would then not shoot at all. Some people do it differently and I have no problems with that.

But your question is very important because it forces us to think about real inner workings of the slingshots, which takes time, effort and funds. Again, some people will agree to that, some people wont.

So, maybe in this forum you will not get much scientific answers as WHYS but if you ask and listen carefully you will certainly get valuable leads from people who maybe can not tell you why - because maybe they do not care - but still have a bit of valuable knowledge to share with you and all of us.

I hope this helps,

cheers,

jazz
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's like asking why one person hits a baseball better with one bat and not another. A lot is personal preference. You may shoot one slingshot really well and another person doesn't. I shoot SPS's and looped tubes. It works well for me. You may not like them at all. Sometimes it's not that something is better it just works for you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
CJW.....
THANKS for the comment.....I wasn't really asking why certain individuals LIKE various slingshots.....or PREFER tubes over flat bands....
My comment was requesting a brief explanation as to WHY x y or z might be of benefit to a shooter rather than just been informed that [" I prefer it"]....thanks .....
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If only it were that simple. Shooting in general, and slingshots in particular really does boil down to personal preference. The WHY for me is probably not the WHY for you. Figure out what you like and what works for you and stick with it. Improvements will come with time and good practice. There is no magic secret or sacred information held by the experts. Just remember to have fun and enjoy the journey.
SLINGDUDE
Thanks for the reply
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
90 degree twist.

If shooting sideways/gangster style and having an anchor near the cheek or ear and the forearm to elbow is in line with the bands, turning the palm to the ground turns the bands 90 degrees.

Why?
-It is a much more natural hand and arm position when shooting sideways.
-Also, relaxes the muscles in the arm and helps in not bend the pouch. Bending the pouch creates fork hits.
RAYSHOT
THANKS MAN.....that's a very useful WHY!!!! answered.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, in some way I think you are right to ask this question, and to make it easier for you, most of us did the same once upon the time.

To answer this question, or a statement, I think that all of us should have one fact on our minds and that fact is that slingshot sport and the accompanying market are still not so important and developed so as that governments and companies invest literally billions of dollar in research, like Space.

With that said, all we have by now is experience and some, I would say, limited experiments.

Let's take as an example width of the forks. Bill Hays took some effort and he showed that wider forks are more efficient than narrow forks. Why? Well, most probably because wider forks for the same length from the point between the forks and the center of the ammo is longer than with the narrow forks, This immediately means that the stretch of the same rubber length is longer, which immediately means that the stretch RATIO is longer and the in the same time ELONGATION is longer.

The first part - higher stretch of the same piece of active rubber, say 5.5 instead of 5 - means more power; but it also means more elongation. BOTH of these parameters affect the velocity of the ammo. Now, there are more questions to be asked here than that, but Bill made a solemn effort, he got some practical results and this is probably enough at this level; for more than that we probably need an institute - which we do not have.

There are other topics, such as what happens when you twist the pouch and, most probably, in this way you give some spin to the ammo - some answers do exist, most probably as the analogy with firearms or so, but truly, a twist applied to a slingshot shot is NOT thoroughly explored and I imagine that for that a fast frame camera is needed, some special marks on the ammo, some true ballistics experts and so on, which we do not have - but Discovery channel does..

So, at least at this moment we are doomed to experience, some limited experiments and analogies and personal preferences even if we had science behind us. Take this as an example: both Bill Hays and the science (if we had one) will tell you that shooting TTF and NO flip makes better results in the sense of precision, target shooting. But I grew up with bareback slingshots made out of old inner bicycle tires, which were so lazy that the flip was indispensable. Today, after 60 years of active shooting I find flipping a slingshot a cool thing to do to a such degree that if flips were forbidden I would then not shoot at all. Some people do it differently and I have no problems with that.

But your question is very important because it forces us to think about real inner workings of the slingshots, which takes time, effort and funds. Again, some people will agree to that, some people wont.

So, maybe in this forum you will not get much scientific answers as WHYS but if you ask and listen carefully you will certainly get valuable leads from people who maybe can not tell you why - because maybe they do not care - but still have a bit of valuable knowledge to share with you and all of us.

I hope this helps,

cheers,

jazz
JAZZ
THANK YOU VERY MUCH for taking time to give such a detailed explanation of those topics....your advise is VERY helpful.....and yes of course I understand slingshotting is not an exact science where we open a book and find a formulaic answer to an issue.....Not been too long a member of the forum I have already harvested a lot of good info and tips.....and I'm sure there's a wealth of more useful stuff waiting to be discovered.........thank you sir....
 

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Возьмем в качестве примера ширину развилок. Билл Хейз приложил некоторые усилия, и он показал, что более широкие вилки более эффективны, чем узкие вилки. Почему? Ну, скорее всего потому, что более широкие вилки на ту же длину от точки между вилками и центром патрона длиннее, чем с узкими вилками, это сразу же означает, что растяжка той же длины резины длиннее, что сразу же означает, что коэффициент растяжения длиннее и в то же время удлинение длиннее.
Степень инженера-механика и школьный курс геометрии не позволяют мне согласиться с этим. Мое расстояние растяжки составляет около 80 см. При ширине рогатки 10 см длина ленты составляет 80,16 см,при ширине рогатки 6 см длина ленты, соответственно, составляет 80,06 см. Изменение на 0,1 см считается незначительным, и никак не влияет на скорость полета снаряда. Я прошу прощения за использование метрической системы.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
IBOJOE
THANKS for that .....ok.....so you're ref to OTT here I take it.....?
Rather than go through the entire range of slingshot available.....would you not have adapted to any slingshot by changing your stance slightly or tilting your head slightly???? (A silly comment from me maybe?? but I won't learn unless I ask)
Thank you man
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Возьмем в качестве примера ширину развилок. Билл Хейз приложил некоторые усилия, и он показал, что более широкие вилки более эффективны, чем узкие вилки. Почему? Ну, скорее всего потому, что более широкие вилки на ту же длину от точки между вилками и центром патрона длиннее, чем с узкими вилками, это сразу же означает, что растяжка той же длины резины длиннее, что сразу же означает, что коэффициент растяжения длиннее и в то же время удлинение длиннее.
Степень инженера-механика и школьный курс геометрии не позволяют мне согласиться с этим. Мое расстояние растяжки составляет около 80 см. При ширине рогатки 10 см длина ленты составляет 80,16 см,при ширине рогатки 6 см длина ленты, соответственно, составляет 80,06 см. Изменение на 0,1 см считается незначительным, и никак не влияет на скорость полета снаряда. Я прошу прощения за использование метрической системы.
VALERY
I'd love to be able to read this.....any English translation available?????
 

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Степень в области машиностроения и школьный курс геометрии не позволяют мне согласиться. Мое расстояние протягивания составляет около 80 см. При ширине рогатки 10 см длина рогатки составляет 80,16 см, при ширине рогатки 6 см длина рогатки составляет 80,06 см соответственно. Изменение на 0,1 см считается незначительным и никак не влияет на скорость полета снаряда. Я прошу прощения за использование метрической системы.
 

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Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...
Thanks for posting this Cathal !

I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
I've learned a bit just on the fork width, mentioned by Jazz regarding the work of Bill Hays & Ibojoe, above.

Previously I had thought wide forks = better grip for big hands, arms & men. And had not even considered elongation & power here.

From my brief learning trials so far with a couple different slings I've worked out that for OTT & TTF narrow forks in both are giving me the better reference & anchor points & hence being more accurate than I was a couple of weeks back. (I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet.) I'm not discounting a wider forked TTF yet. Interesting & great fun!

Technical sling stuff put in layman's terms by experienced shooters is real good for us numpties so please keep it coming!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...
Thanks for posting this Cathal !

I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
I've learned a bit just on the fork width, mentioned by Jazz regarding the work of Bill Hays & Ibojoe, above.

Previously I had thought wide forks = better grip for big hands, arms & men. And had not even considered elongation & power here.

From my brief learning trials so far with a couple different slings I've worked out that for OTT & TTF narrow forks in both are giving me the better reference & anchor points & hence being more accurate than I was a couple of weeks back. (I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet.) I'm not discounting a wider forked TTF yet. Interesting & great fun!

Technical sling stuff put in layman's terms by experienced shooters is real good for us numpties so please keep it coming!
TRAP1
By your post I can tell you're far ahead of me in this pursuit.....I've just got 1 catty and am trying (hopelessly maybe) to perfect all the attributes that go with this art.....is it a case of "finding "the right fork to settle on (like IBOJOE below mentions)....?????

......
I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
 

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Great question I feel a lot of us pick out our first slingshot by the appearance. One of my first slingshots was the Hathcock by Bill Hays. The Hathcock is very ergo friendly, but with my small hands, it’s not my best fit. Now people with bigger hands love it. I was very fortunate that Bill Hays brought me a BoyShot, and this fits me perfectly In fact with a lanyard, I can cradle the slingshot without pinch gripping the frame. Since the forks do not extend very far from my hand, I can shoot most tubes from lighter to heavier pull. I’m sure there is scientific evidence that wide versus narrow, and longer versus shorter forks, but when you pick up that one certain slingshot that fits like a glove you will definitely know it’s the right one. As far as shooting, there is a basic stance, but I found that for me I stand like Im hunting with my shotgun. I also do not hold the ammo between my thumb and index finger. I hold the pouch in front of the ammo. I tried to shoot like most other people, but after a few years, I just let it happen. By that I mean I walked out grabbed my BoyShot focused on the small target and let the ammo fly. I’m finally to the place where I have a well fit slingshot, and I guess I halfway shoot instinctively. I hope you keep us posted on your progress. TreeFork says “have fun first“ My thoughts are “find a slingshot that just feels right, a stance that comes naturally and do the same thing every time” . In the end if you are hitting your target the majority of the time and having fun, You win
 

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This is how I break it down. I got my first slingshot when I turned 4 in 1968. A wood frames Wham-o that my Gramps bought for 10cents at the Five&Dime. To me that slingshot was a full-function Light Saber by today's standards! My first job in life was to move cows to the dairy barn using that slingshot and whatever ammo was at my feet. I didn't have the distraction of TV, the Internet, or others kids to compare myself. Just Pops yelling at me to 'getter done son'..!!
I guess my point is that it is important to know deep down inside your soul what a slingshot CAN do with some focus and practice. There are shooters on this Forum and others can can put together a slingshot with a coat hanger, some office rubber-bands and a tongue from and old shoe and win a prize at the County Fair with it. I believe they can do this because they just know where that BB is going to go after the 3rd shot!
Yup you are going to make mistakes. Fork hits, hand hits, flyers, and mystery shots too! Now that I am an older adult who believes himself to be a technical genius, I will put together a system I copied from YouTube if I am trying out an unfamiliar frame or experimenting with my hold.
1. Hang a moving blanket from a ceiling about 10 feet away.
2. Put a paper circle in the middle.
3. Use Airsoft Pellets for ammo, or BB's or rubber balls if you can get them.
4. Just start shooting until you hit the paper.
5. Take notes.
6. Don't repeat the stuff that doesn't work!
7. Try to remember how smart you were at age 5, but use the Safety Glasses anyway.
8. Once your brain knows where you want to hit your target, then your hands will obey that command.
9. Use The Force.
10. Summary: Scrap my nonsense and go back to square 'one'.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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When you ask "Why" about fork tips, pouch turning or anything related to shooting slingshot the answer most us have is that I do it that way because that is what works for me.

I suggest as keeping a journal of things you try. Keep track of what slingshot, bands, tapers, pouch and fork width, aiming reference, pouch turn - anything that comes to mind. Write down did it work, what you liked or didn't like about the set up and what were the results with different ammo.

Pretty quickly you'll figure out what slingshot, bands, tapers and ammo that best fit you.
 

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Hi Cathal,

I was reading the forums, old threads, books and magazines about slingshots. If something was unclear I was banding up a frame or carved it to see how it works for me. It requires some patience, but works every time.

Those variables will always flip theory, the pouch you use, the release, the straight thumb, the off center hole, the rust you don't see yet on the steel ball, the elbow position, the jerking movement upon release, if you push your thumb into your anchor, if the frame is not perpendicular.

There is not enough time and thread to explain everything, but a hint may give a heads up for the start.

Just put things in practice.

Regards,

Mark
 
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