Here in the UK I think the Police would recognise that you were carrying a tactical pen, as opposed to an ordinary pen and possibly try and charge you for carrying and offensive weapon. If a pen is the route you want to go down then simply carry a full metal body normal pen, like those nice stainless "Parker" pens you see.
I carry two Leatherman tools with me, knife and saw blades removed to make them legal - if it came to it I would extend the locking Philips screwdriver and have one in each hand as non-lethal (screwdrivers are only 30mm long) but very debilitating punching weapons. In the UK screwdrivers are not classed as offensive weapons.
You should check exactly the legal situation in Switzerland.

 

I can barely wrap my head around what you guys are saying here. But to answer your question ‘Yes’—if a tactical pen is all you’ve got, then make it work. I was born in the ‘64 in the US and grew up on a dairy farm. It was just like you see in the movies. Shotgun behind the door, deer rifle in the truck, six shooter on the hip with a fixed blade knife on the other hip and a folder in the pocket. All tools, plain and simple. Knowing what I know now and If I had to live in one of your countries I would carry an ebony cane with a heavy handle. If it was raining a lot I’d have a weighted umbrella with me. When it comes to self defense it is best to keep the violence out of reach if possible. Using a tactical pen or a stripped Leatherman means you’d better be ready and raging mad to keep hammering away while blood is drenching your hand and making things hard to hold onto. I’ve spent almost 30 years working for Uncle Sam and needed to carry a pistol for the majority of that time. The difficulty with self defense is the reality that it isn’t like scaring a mean dog away. You need to be ready to tear flesh and break bones to potentially save your own life or that of a loved one.

 

Where you a policeman? Hope the question isn't too brisk.

And I would maybe take a steel rod. maybe like 25-30cm and 1cm thick. one had it just coincidentally in reach.

streets in europe are getting more and more unsafe. 20 years before, they were some of the safest in the world. but now...

 

Where you a policeman? Hope the question isn't too brisk.

And I would maybe take a steel rod. maybe like 25-30cm and 1cm thick. one had it just coincidentally in reach.

No, not a policeman, they don’t have any fun. I was more like a bodyguard for people that have a lot of enemies.

 

If you want real nice solid metal pens, check out this pen manufactory in the black forest.
might be the most noble pens in the world.
(for a swiss they are easy to obtain)

Black Forest Pen - Kugelschreiber aus dem Schwarzwald (blackforest-pen.de)

 

I've been practicing... on and off... some kind of martial art since before I was ten. And in my opinion, if you are not trained in even basic hand to hand, carrying a tactical pen won't help you in any way.

Knuckle dusters are for amateurs who don't know they'll break their own fingers when they use those. 🤣

Stun guns are also over-hyped garbage. Taser.... will work on one guy, not on two. And if you are confronted by the mythical Arab refugee mob... well they never mug you alone. Arabs are a mob people.

Best self defense tool? Knife, of course. But are you prepared to draw blood??? Are you prepared to deal with the "good guys"... the legal system... later? I sure am not.

So there is only ONE weapon that actually works and can stop more than one attacker in their tracks INSTANTLY (I have seen it used).

Pepper spray. Get a dispenser that fits on a key chain. Nobody can even see you are armed. Look for a brand called "Sabre Red".

And get basic training, THEN you can dream of tactical pens or expanding batons.

Jason Bourne, we are not. 🤣

 

Exactly what you say, if you're not ready to fight, no amount of weapons will help. Anything will be used as weapon in emergency.

 

Kubotan is quite effective, but only in the hands of a trained person. Without training and proper striking technique it is almost useless. It's movie heroes who kill enemies with a pencil, but in real life there are few supermen.
For the average person, a punch-dagger is more suitable, because it is an extension of the fist, but these knives are probably also banned in Europe.
I think that for a person with no training, the best option for a non-lethal weapon is a quality gas canister.

 

Thanks for summarizing what I wrote, mate. Much appreciated.

Here be the three tactical pens I carry. One is a mechanical pencil. The other is a heavy stainless steel pen with a tungsten carbide attack head.. "glass breaker" (will also go through a skull). And the last one (top one) is the most dangerous... I made that myself.

When I am really serious, I can always carry my gun (apart from a knife). Tactical pens are just a back up.

If you depend on these for your primary defense... and you have no concept of hand to hand fighting... you deserve getting nailed. Seriously.

 

Some interesting viewpoints.

Essentially, the best self defense is avoiding trouble in the first place, and so-called "situational awareness" is paramount here. Most of us do not keep up with combat sport techniques to be in a top notch preparation condition for an unexpected attack, and we simply are not collectively conditioned to aggressive behavior - quite on the contrary. Moreover, the right to self defense related criminal law in most countries is such that any reaction deemed excessive in court can take the victim straight to jail.

Indeed, the right to self defense is limited to actions that are proportional to the type of attack. If guns and knives are no option as is the case in most Western and Asian countries, all that is left is pepper spray and a Kubotan or tactical pen-type self defense tool, and in many cases, not even that.

The old adage from a gentleman named Oliver Goldsmith comes to mind: "He who fights and runs away may live to fight another day. But he who is battle slain can never rise to fight again". From this perspective, it makes sense that most people out there, being untrained in hand-to-hand combat in a generally peaceful society, will benefit from something like pepper spray or a tactical pen to gain valuable time for an escape to safety. This is what really counts, not to mention the truly thin line between effective non-lethal self defense and the law.

This is also why US gun laws allowing citizens to be armed with lethal force make absolute sense in my opinion. Bad guys will think twice before trying their evil plans. This gives the weaker members in society a chance.

Sean, I do not think that anyone "deserves to be nailed" (!!!) if they are innocent victims going about their daily lives, and are not fully trained and experienced in martial arts: that is the case of the clear majority in society.

 

the right to self defense related criminal law in most countries is such that any reaction deemed excessive in court can take the victim straight to jail.

In case of a gun:

1. Intruder gets one shot to the chest while on your property AND you used a weapon licensed in your name AND IF the intruder is also armed.... You are good. No judge can send you to jail.

2. You shot the guy in the back. Oops. Not so good.... self defense becomes debatable. You might win if the bad guy had a gun on him.

3. You shot him twice. Self-defense in doubt. You are in big trouble.

4. You shot him with an unlicensed weapon. Your life is over.

being untrained in hand-to-hand combat in a generally peaceful society, will benefit from something like pepper spray or a tactical pen to gain valuable time for an escape to safety

Untrained person will benefit from pepper spray. Not so much from a tactical pen.

Before pepper spray, women used to carry red chili powder mixed with black pepper in their purses. Also works.

One more weapon I failed to mention is a walking stick. I sometimes like carrying a walking stick. Just because I like the style. And I can tell you... when people look at me and I look back, they turn their eyes away. Eye contact broken. Otherwise, people have "lazy eyes"... they stare at you just because they can. That ends. And that also ends the start of any potential trouble. Wearing dark shades also has similar effect... see my pic.

Seems to be human instinct of some sort to be afraid of a walking stick.

Sean, I do not think that anyone "deserves to be nailed" (!!!) if they are innocent victims going about their daily lives

No innocent victim deserves to be nailed. But if an untrained person thinks they can do THIS (see video below), they are headed for grief.

I believe this movie and this scene from that movie started the tactical pen thing:

Man they’ve really clipped your wings over there.

Thank Allah I'm Asian.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention the most important thing.... I think the idea behind the tactical pen is to look non-aggressive while being ready for aggression. It is not an obvious weapon. Can it kill? Oh yes! If it can bash through a coconut, it can bash through a human skull (yes I tested it).

But there is something else that is also very useful. Steel capped boots. They work. They save you from hurt. And you get to take out someone's knees easily. And they don't look aggressive.

And for certain people who have English comprehension issues... I am not "endorsing" or advocating violence. This is a hypothetical discussion and this is how all self-defense people talk... "what if..."

So chill.

 

Even the leatherman saws?! Man they’ve really clipped your wings over there. 😞

 

As I said, it saved my life once... but these batons are often very cheap and made of un-tempered steel. So it bent and wouldn't close again (but it had done it's job). I bought another one the next day. And I made something in my own workshop that's far better.

I think the question is... if you are stuck in a bad situation... are you most likely to deal with one or two attackers ... where a tactical pen might work... or are you going to have a mob come at you?

It is different for each country. I have only ever been attacked by a pair. It's always a pair.

In India, next door, on the other hand, being attacked by a mob seems the norm.

In both cases, pepper spray will work.

And if you think you are a martial arts expert... this is how martial arts experts get nailed... they learn nunchucks. ... the most USELESS overrated martial arts weapon ever. It was created by morons for morons. An expandable baton actually works without going through the risk of hurting yourself.

Second most useless weapon is a knuckle duster. It works... but it'll work even better if you chuck it at someone like a rock. Why did one even spend money on that poop.... I was just curious.

 

You have to become the weapon and become a raging animal then everything you grab becomes a instrument of destruction.people have been killed with rocks,sticks and hammers but rage is what caused the death!

 

So when Pepper Spray was being packaged for public use myself and a few associates were given a box of ‘this stuff’ to go run some tests and take some notes for the manufacturer. We were all staying in a hotel in Miami and decided to open a window (yea, you used to be able to open hotel windows) and shoot a spray out the window to see what kind of distance we’d get. I am sure many of you can tell the story from here right? Since we were around 25 floors up and the sea breeze was blowing the spray ionized and got sucked right back into the hotel room! 😳 Six guys screaming and cussing and blowing snot all over the place. Good times. We had all had experience with how to keep from getting dead from gas discharge, but this surprise attack was, well, a surprise! 🤣 Speaking of which. Do you know why Bill Cosby’s eyes are always red during sex? It’s the Pepper Spray.

 

I always wonder about how effective those things are. I worked with a tow truck driver for a few years. Avg build, no real fight training except the occasional scrap. He did a repo job once and the owner of the car came out and attacked him with a 3" folding knife. The driver took 7 puncture wounds, including one to his neck, before he beat the brakes off the other guy with his fists. The driver recovered from his wounds later, but at the time he said he didn't even feel the knife, and didn't even know the other guy had it till he'd been stabbed a couple times. He still managed to beat the other guy into a puddle and could have easily killed him before succumbing to his own injuries.

I work with patients at a mental hospital and we restrain them frequently. I'm 6'1" and 220lbs, but I've been ragdolled by guys 6" shorter and 40lbs lighter. When they're hopped up on drugs or fearing for their life they're just way too strong for one person to handle (of course we're trying not to harm them either).

I guess what I'm getting at is it may just come down to the mentality and demeanor of the assailant. A pen is better than nothing, but if someone's blood is up there's a good chance they won't be deterred unless they take major damage to their skeletal or nervous system. I don't know if pain will be much of a deterrent. If someone is just trying to grab your wallet and scared/nervous, you can probably chase them off a little easier though.

Good luck out there and stay safe! If immigration laws are relaxing over there maybe I should take another look. Switzerland was always on my short list of European countries I'd like to move to, but when did research it seemed pretty difficult to move there, let alone find a job in my field.

 

Come as a refugee... you will achieve full around care, a new flat, lots of money, children-money... and more money, money... at least in a country in the EU. don't need to ever work again. germany isn't so much different than switzerland...
It's very disgiusting as how (corrupt) politicians turn our countries in a shit hole.

 

sound like what sleepy joe and his ilk are doing to America, makes me sick!!

 

I got me and wife one of these, Im sure she would never use it, my idea is if I get a overzealous panhandler. they are at stoplights all over , I keep it in my air conditioner vent, my trucks old Im not worried about it, a jab to a forearm hopefully would deter a mildly ambitious bum, my SIL wont ride w/ window down, Im not ready to bend that far

 

Mikey, I would assume that your professional activity and experience is in demand in Switzerland, depending on your specialization. Check this out:

Non-EU/EFTA nationals

www.sem.admin.ch

and

Survey highlights staff shortages in Swiss nursing homes

Nursing homes in Switzerland increasingly struggle to recruit enough skilled personnel and health workers say they have reached their limits in terms of the provision of quality healthcare.

www.swissinfo.ch

In Switzerland, it boils down to two distinct situations in terms of self defense:

Anyone with a firearms acquisition certificate can buy handguns and semi-auto rifles. You do not require an acquisition certificate to buy bolt action charged hunting rifles, or standard shotguns: the store merely has to announce the ID of the buyer and the details of the rifles purchased to the cantonal police ("notification requirement"). You are only authorized to take firearms of any kind to the shooting range or for hunting (the latter involves a difficult theoretical test to get a license, relatively few people go hunting here). Firearms carrying licenses are extremely difficult to get without a valid reason.

Thus, most gun owners have to leave their firearms at home (no legal obligation to keep them in a locked safe, though), where they could hypothetically use them against an intruder, but only if they are in imminent danger of severe physical harm or death. No "stand your ground" in Switzerland. Swiss judges will apparently take into account the high levels of distress related to situations of violent attacks and self defense means used under such circumstances, which also implies that the legal rule of proportionality (attack vs defense) might be subject to a waiver with regard to excessive force.

Outdoors and in the streets is a different story, as all you are legally entitled to carry is a pepper spray, which is very effective if used correctly. A tactical pen is legal to carry, but might be confiscated by a police officer who feels that you are carrying a "dangerous object" without a valid reason in a public area. Carrying certain knives is legal too (only asymmetrical blades, or Karambit knives, all of which are not considered as "weapons" under Swiss law), but these are also classed as "dangerous objects" that may be confiscated if you happen to be subject to a body search by the police (extremely rare, unless one draws attention in a bad way). From what I read about this interesting subject, many people carry concealed legal knives in Switzerland these days, particularly the younger generations. As I said, things are not what they used to be.

The bottom line is that you can legally carry and use a pepper spray to defend yourself in the streets, but can use a firearm against intruders in your home in a case of a deadly threat. In this context, the tactical pen could be a possible backup tool if ever the spray fails for any reason. Something like a Karambit knife is doubtlessly a nasty game changer under certain circumstances, but also a significant risk in terms of a potential lethal outcome - not to mention that you need to know what you're doing.

A tactical pen takes somewhat less specific training in absolute terms, and is less likely to generate a lethal outcome. Chances are that the courts would take a dim view of knives as opposed to a tactical pen.

If I were in the US, I would opt for a firearm, no question about it.

 

Mikey, I would assume that your professional activity and experience is in demand in Switzerland, depending on your specialization. Check this out:

Non-EU/EFTA nationals

www.sem.admin.ch

and

Survey highlights staff shortages in Swiss nursing homes

Nursing homes in Switzerland increasingly struggle to recruit enough skilled personnel and health workers say they have reached their limits in terms of the provision of quality healthcare.

www.swissinfo.ch

In Switzerland, it boils down to two distinct situations in terms of self defense:

Anyone with a firearms acquisition certificate can buy handguns and semi-auto rifles. You do not require an acquisition certificate to buy bolt action charged hunting rifles, or standard shotguns: the store merely has to announce the ID of the buyer and the details of the rifles purchased to the cantonal police ("notification requirement"). You are only authorized to take firearms of any kind to the shooting range or for hunting (the latter involves a difficult theoretical test to get a license, relatively few people go hunting here). Firearms carrying licenses are extremely difficult to get without a valid reason.

Thus, most gun owners have to leave their firearms at home (no legal obligation to keep them in a locked safe, though), where they could hypothetically use them against an intruder, but only if they are in imminent danger of severe physical harm or death. No "stand your ground" in Switzerland. Swiss judges will apparently take into account the high levels of distress related to situations of violent attacks and self defense means used under such circumstances, which also implies that the legal rule of proportionality (attack vs defense) might be subject to a waiver with regard to excessive force.

Outdoors and in the streets is a different story, as all you are legally entitled to carry is a pepper spray, which is very effective if used correctly. A tactical pen is legal to carry, but might be confiscated by a police officer who feels that you are carrying a "dangerous object" without a valid reason in a public area. Carrying certain knives is legal too (only asymmetrical blades, or Karambit knives, all of which are not considered as "weapons" under Swiss law), but these are also classed as "dangerous objects" that may be confiscated if you happen to be subject to a body search by the police (extremely rare, unless one draws attention in a bad way). From what I read about this interesting subject, many people carry concealed legal knives in Switzerland these days, particularly the younger generations. As I said, things are not what they used to be.

The bottom line is that you can legally carry and use a pepper spray to defend yourself in the streets, but can use a firearm against intruders in your home in a case of a deadly threat. In this context, the tactical pen could be a possible backup tool if ever the spray fails for any reason. Something like a Karambit knife is doubtlessly a nasty game changer under certain circumstances, but also a significant risk in terms of a potential lethal outcome - not to mention that you need to know what you're doing.

A tactical pen takes somewhat less specific training in absolute terms, and is less likely to generate a lethal outcome. Chances are that the courts would take a dim view of knives as opposed to a tactical pen.

If I were in the US, I would opt for a firearm, no question about it.

Is pepper spray really work? Ive never been sprayed so I dont know

 

Well, according to these US Marines who faced the "test", yes:

Sooner them than me.

 

I have decades of experience in self-defense, right out on the streets. Pepper spray is the way to go, as you don't want an attacker (yes, I've been attacked more than once) getting near you! You don't want to make physical contact with an attacker or you've already lost, in my opinion. Situational awareness is key, avoid questionable situations if you can. However, there are times when trouble comes looking for you out of the blue. By the way, pepper spray is worthless if you don't train with it. I still train, daily, with it. If you don't train, you won't even remember you have it with you when you need it most! Even with a high level of training, you'll react differently when adrenaline hits you. If you can't carry spray, due to laws, the heavy walking stick or cane is the way to go. I made one for my brother he uses when out walking through his woods. If attacked by a four-legged creature, he can keep it at a distance.

Joe

 

Pepper spray is the way to go

Yep.

BUT do not use... never ever.... :

1. Indoors.
2. If the bad guy has a gun. He'll be in pain and will start firing blind.

In my experience, pepper spray is best used in road rage incidents when the guy gets out of his car and walks towards you in a threatening manner cussing at you for taking his parking spot (yes the world is full of nutters).

Once dosed, the guy can't follow you for at least half an hour. Just left them by their ride trying to wipe their face (which makes it worse).... never hit anyone, never needed to, once you spray them. Go enjoy your parking spot. It's all yours.

You don't want to make physical contact with an attacker

Well, in my case, bad guy had a gun and was sticking it in my back. Once physical contact is there, you have no choice. Either get it over with in 3 seconds or you're a goner. I solved the problem in under half a second. 🤣

the heavy walking stick or cane is the way to go

AND it can never be banned. No matter where you live.

Oh - lets also not forget pepper spray is also illegal.

But it's defensive.... Is this all over Europe or just some places?

They ran out of my favorite brand, Sabre Red. So I got this instead.. don't know if it's illegal in Germany.. if yes, then they have allowed it for export at least.

Remember to put it in the fridge for long term storage.

slingshot....I wouldn't advise it

Yep. Slingshots are great for one shot ambush. Not for self defense... reload time sucks.

 

Kubotans and tactical pens - are illegal in most of the EU and UK. Its seen as a weapon - so its literally an issue - and Kubotans are specifically mentioned. Also in many places having something which is essentially a concealed weapon such as a knife which resembles a key or a pen as Kubotan... You'd need to have a very plausible excuse for carrying (and hope the officer is in a good understanding mood). And heaven forbid you use it on someone - without proof of a valid reason you're in trouble - and the fact you're carrying something to inflict injury in the first place you're going to be in huge trouble. You got to check your laws. Having first hand info from police - the only 'plausible' self defence item you can legally carry is hairspray - and as a guy explaining that is going to get interesting.

Oh - lets also not forget pepper spray is also illegal.

 

Kubotans and tactical pens - are illegal in most of the EU and UK. Its seen as a weapon - so its literally an issue - and Kubotans are specifically mentioned. Also in many places having something which is essentially a concealed weapon such as a knife which resembles a key or a pen as Kubotan... You'd need to have a very plausible excuse for carrying (and hope the officer is in a good understanding mood). And heaven forbid you use it on someone - without proof of a valid reason you're in trouble - and the fact you're carrying something to inflict injury in the first place you're going to be in huge trouble. You got to check your laws. Having first hand info from police - the only 'plausible' self defence item you can legally carry is hairspray - and as a guy explaining that is going to get interesting.

Quick, ban the hairspray!! 😜. Good to see you back Matt. We were all thinking of you, man.

 

Now, if legal, a slingshot can be an effective self-defense weapon, but I wouldn't advise it. I'll relate a situation I found myself in, last Sunday. It was 3PM, and I decided to walk down to the river and do some shooting with a heavy-pulling slingshot and 3/8" bearings. Since it's a fairly safe town and was in broad daylight, I decided to leave my pepper spray at home. I figured I wouldn't run into trouble, but if I did, at least I'd have a beast of a slingshot with me, lol! A few blocks from the river, I neared a large, open intersection. Suddenly, a shirtless teenager, probably around 18, appeared in the road and started chasing cars and cursing at them, while flipping them the bird. He was extremely agitated, and my path was on a collision course with him! I made a quick decision to cut to the north and walk away and behind him, all the while watching without making direct eye-contact. He continued on, walking by out in front of me and never looked at me or said a word. I had already loaded a bearing in the pouch but didn't show my weapon. As he continued down the street, he'd scream obscenities and kick at trees, mad as heck, but he left me alone, lol! Had I not changed course, I could have found myself in a confrontation. Never take your eyes off of a potential threat, but don't make direct eye-contact, if you can help it, and turn away from the threat without turning your back to it.

Joe

 

CS is allowed for use against humans, pepper only for animals in germany.
but for self defense pepper is still allowed against humans, if its the only option to handle the threat and justifies serious bodily harm. pepper is more painful and the effect is always there, whilst to CS some people are immune and some don't... pepper also goes into skin.

 

Broadly speaking in the EU/UK - if it can be used as a weapon (pepper spray included) its illegal for public carry. In Portugal we are able to carry a <90mm fixed blade. But if you use on someone, even for self defence you're in deep. Obviously countries have their own laws or variations on the laws - So you need to be 100% sure whats applicable.

 

@mattwalt A bit OT:
Are airguns allowed to own in portugal? Is there a limitation in power or caliber?

maybe one day, i want to move to your country, and I have a collection of them.
Oh, and whats with Crossbows...?

 

Yeah - it can be OTT - the UK is especially harsh. But interesting in how laws are applied. For instance in the UK you can own a sword or a dagger etc. but may not carry it publicly (without a good valid reason), even then if the officer who catches you with it is in a bad mood you could end up in some serious legal trouble - I've heard stories where SAK's have ended up in legal costs because the officer deemed it a weapon (even though its 100% legal carry). Remember in an infraction you're guilty until proven innocent... However in Portugal a dagger is 100% illegal to even own, and a sword requires a firearms licence...

Airguns are no problem in Portugal, as long as you're over 18. Unlike the UK I believe there arn't even power limits - but unsure if there are caliber ones. Crossbows and bows are also fine, though again over 18 to purchase. But to hunt (now matter what with) you need to be a member of a hunting association and have passed an exam including written and practical proficiency... Far as I am aware also all currently in Portuguese.

Hunting with arrows in the UK is illegal. So while you can own crossbows and bows there - its only for target shooting.

Also it must be emphasised intent. If you buy something with the intension of using it for self defence it becomes an offensive weapon and would by that case become illegal, and if used as such even if your life was threatened could also end up in jail. But if its for target practice (and can prove) and happen to use in a life-threatening attack - then its technically fine. But you'll have a fair amount of explaining to do regardless.

Its also should be stressed what is considered as a violent attack... One weird one was rape in the UK. The act of rape is considered violet only until penetration after which its no longer seen as such. So if you happened to fight someone off at that point you would actually be accused of assault. That one does my head in.

 

Just come here, go to the bazaar, buy a cheeseburger and skip the fries.

Use the money you saved on the fries to buy the cheapest gun in Pakistan.
(a foreigner can't own a gun, btw... this is just hypothetical universe talk)

Now THIS is a "tactical pen". Pretty sure it'll be illegal in most places around the world. Like I know for sure your life will be over if you are found with one of these at Dubai airport.... hippy no more!